Too strong for your own good?

[NHGoalie]

Originally Posted by punkerjim

putting on too much bulk will reduce your flexibility. think of the body builders that look like they can't even wipe their own butts (extreme example but that's the concept).

working out usually doesn't equate to huge muscle mass but there's a point at which muscle hinders movement.

yes but we are talking about goalies not bodybuilders.

[punkerjim]

Originally Posted by NHGoalie

yes but we are talking about goalies not bodybuilders.

.... which is why i said "extreme example"......

[Kerlin]

Ok I'm 26. I don't work out (on the ice so much and I work a labour intensive job) during the season and havent in general for a few years now. It is somethig im going to be doin once this season ends. Back in grade 11 however, due to being on the football team I was required to attend our 3 time a week workout sessions. The program was a strength building program. Not design to gain size, although as you get stronger, you will naturally get a little bigger.

My max squat doubled over the course f six months up to 350lbs. My bench didn't get up very high but my dead lifts got up to 300lbs and my core got to the point where we had a little team competition of who could stay in the plank position (on your elbows and toes) the longest and I lasted about 4 minutes longer than everyone else.

How these strength gains transferred to goalie was astounding. Everything was easier. There was far less fatigue, I could go up an down far quicker, I could move faster and when I reacted, my saves became faster (kicking out my leg an whatnot). Even the smaller gains in my arms made me faster.

In terms of size, my body as a whole got noticeably larger, with my legs and but gaining the most size (they were already big as it was lol). I had no loss in flexibility, I actually became more flexible. That being said, I religious spent a measly 10 minutes a day stretching. The last thing I ever wanted to do was pull a groin or something. But stretching after your workout warm up is key to preventing injury. As for on the ice, do a couple laps and take a few shots to get the blood pumping and to warm you up, then stretch.

If you plan on training for hockey or any sport in general, you can never go wrong with a strength orientated workout plan. Usually consists of 8-12 reps, 3 or 4 sets. Make sure to do a lot of core strength exercises as that is what will really help you keep your balance. Workout the little muscles as much as you do the big ones. You want your body as a whole to be strong. You will gain size. I gaine 10 lbs over that six months and felt great.

We play a unique position where we have to use every part of our body to make saves. We have to twist, dive, drop, twirl, slide and move our body into a ton of different positions all to keep that little black piece of rubber from crossing a 1" thick line that spans between two pieces of red steel pipe. Keeping our body strong as a whole can only benefit us.

[glovestrong94]

Originally Posted by toddamus

I've noticed many NHL goalies tend to be incredibly fit albeit their upper bodies appear under developed. Think of guys like Lou, Miller, Fleury, Rinne etc etc, their chest and arm muscles aren't overly impressive. Is there a reason for this? Is it detrimental for a goalie to have big arms and a ripped chest? I'm not sure what my opinion is on this bc I'm not sure if a large upper body slows a goalie down or not. In my mind it could go either way, but based on appearance alone it seems the thin arms may be the way to go.

I think most pro athletes would be considered "incredibly fit" regardless of appearance (think NFL lineman) as compared to most of us casual players. I think a lot of what you see may be based on "body type" more than actual lack of physique.

The question you are posing is kind of conflicted because there can be huge differences between actual physical appearance or physique, literal strength and actual muscle mass.

Regarding body types there are typically three main categories: Ectomorph, mesomorph or endomorph. Read Your Body Type - Ectomorph, Mesomorph or Endomorph? | Muscle & Strength for a more detailed look at body types.

From personal observation most NHL tenders are falling into the Ectomorph category, however this does not mean they are not fit or that they do not possess incredible literal strength.

I think if you are looking for fitness requirements/expectations for goaltenders specifically your best bet is total body workout with a focus on core strength and flexibility. The idea is not necessarily to build mass but improve muscle conditioning.

I think TV does a poor job of reflecting a persons physique as well. Unless your seeing these guys up close and personal in the gym or on the street on a regular basis I don't think your really getting an accurate depiction of their physical appearance and prowess off the ice.

Personally I am primarily an endomorph and I find it difficult to maintain a healthy weight because it is easy to both gain and lose (especially when following a very regimented diet and fitness plan) fat mass, however, I do not feel as though my body type has ever negatively impacted my game.

Bear in mind that you can have a "ripped" physique at 130lbs or 330 lbs its really all a matter of body fat %, though if you are sub 7's body fat at 330 lbs you'd look pretty freakish...just a thought.

[RollerGoalie30]

ShellSh0cked said it best "Bigger muscles = loss of flexibility is a myth". It all comes down to flexibility. As long as you can do the full range of motion for the exercise, then it does not matter how heavy the weight is. Once you start doing heavy weights and shortening the motion, only then will you reduce your flexibility.

From what I have learned, you want your body in balance. So having super strong legs and a weak upper body is not the answer. Your core and your arms play a very crucial role in your goalie abilities. Your core keeps you upright when you drop into butterfly, it allows you to twist, bend, and even be able to hold your leg extensions. You use your arms to keep your stick in place, swing them up for a glove or blocker save.

If you have a weak upper body you will not be able to keep your glove from popping up if a player tries to stop you from covering the puck. Weak wrists and arms can cause your stick to get pushed back from a hard shot, same thing with a paddle down attempt.

I've been working out for years (5'10", approx 168lbs) and have no loss of range of motion or flexibility. In fact, between working out and stretching all the time I have improved my flexibility over the years.

Don't buy into the hype. Workout smart, maintain range of motion, and you'll be fine.

[revconditioning]

Great discussion on this one and I have to agree with most of what is said. Adding muscle mass will not necessarily decrease your flexibility if you strengthen your muscles in a way that is functional for what you are trying to achieve.

The only analogy that I can think of is prescription meds...If I have knee surgery and need to take codeine for 3 days after the surgery, that does not mean I am a drug addict. If however, I use the wrong dose or use a medicine that is not warranted - then I have a problem.

So the key is selecting the right dose of the right exercises. Remember that the muscles work in longitudinal and diagonal slings so although we may look at a goalie and think they do not require much upper body strength, I think it is still worth considering how the strength in the lats or pecs contribute to core stabilization and even lower body movement.

Sprinters only use their legs, but most have a well developed (not overly bulky) upper body that helps drive the machine.

I always ask myself when designing a program - "how will this improve the player's performance" - if I cannot say how, then I do not include the exercise.

Again, great discussion gang.
Cheers,
Maria

[Threeleggedyoyo]

It's pretty simple.

Playing goalie is not about strength. It's about speed.

Ever seen a ripped runner? On the contrary, they are very strong. But what they develop is lean, fast-twitch muscle mass. Goalies are generally built the same way.

Goalies are built for speed, not power.

~Brent

[T Kell 09]

Originally Posted by Threeleggedyoyo

It's pretty simple.

Playing goalie is not about strength. It's about speed.

Ever seen a ripped runner? On the contrary, they are very strong. But what they develop is lean, fast-twitch muscle mass. Goalies are generally built the same way.

Goalies are built for speed, not power.

~Brent

I'm assuming you mean sprinters when you refer to "runners" in which case i don't totally disagree with what you're saying but I also do. Without developing strength you won't have power. Without having power you won't be able to make certain movements as fast as you possibly can.

The best way i can explain it is that if you're comparing two people of the same weight both 165 lbs as an example. If one lifts a lot and can squat just as an example 2x body weight so 330 pounds and one never lifts who is going to have the advantage? I think its pretty clear that the person that can squat 2x body weight will have that advantage.

If you butterfly and need to push off with one leg the amount of power that the goalie who squats 2x bodyweight will be able to generate will be much greater than that of the softie who won't hit the gym thus resulting in greater speed.

[Reebok565]

Unless you're a bodybuilder, developing your pecs won't hinder your movement... I work my upper body alot, and I find it helps alot with your hand speed. As I got stronger it got easier to lift the stick up quickly and make saves high blocker. Same with the glove hand...
Seems to me it's only beneficial.

[Jarliy]

I box and wrestle in the off-season, and life 3x a week. Great for explosiveness, coordination, etc. Also, getting slammed into a mat, or having you nose smashed, makes playing goalie a lot less scary.

[UkieWall33]

Originally Posted by Kerlin

Ok I'm 26. I don't work out (on the ice so much and I work a labour intensive job) during the season and havent in general for a few years now. It is somethig im going to be doin once this season ends. Back in grade 11 however, due to being on the football team I was required to attend our 3 time a week workout sessions. The program was a strength building program. Not design to gain size, although as you get stronger, you will naturally get a little bigger.

My max squat doubled over the course f six months up to 350lbs. My bench didn't get up very high but my dead lifts got up to 300lbs and my core got to the point where we had a little team competition of who could stay in the plank position (on your elbows and toes) the longest and I lasted about 4 minutes longer than everyone else.

How these strength gains transferred to goalie was astounding. Everything was easier. There was far less fatigue, I could go up an down far quicker, I could move faster and when I reacted, my saves became faster (kicking out my leg an whatnot). Even the smaller gains in my arms made me faster.

In terms of size, my body as a whole got noticeably larger, with my legs and but gaining the most size (they were already big as it was lol). I had no loss in flexibility, I actually became more flexible. That being said, I religious spent a measly 10 minutes a day stretching. The last thing I ever wanted to do was pull a groin or something. But stretching after your workout warm up is key to preventing injury. As for on the ice, do a couple laps and take a few shots to get the blood pumping and to warm you up, then stretch.

If you plan on training for hockey or any sport in general, you can never go wrong with a strength orientated workout plan. Usually consists of 8-12 reps, 3 or 4 sets. Make sure to do a lot of core strength exercises as that is what will really help you keep your balance. Workout the little muscles as much as you do the big ones. You want your body as a whole to be strong. You will gain size. I gaine 10 lbs over that six months and felt great.

We play a unique position where we have to use every part of our body to make saves. We have to twist, dive, drop, twirl, slide and move our body into a ton of different positions all to keep that little black piece of rubber from crossing a 1" thick line that spans between two pieces of red steel pipe. Keeping our body strong as a whole can only benefit us.

Kerlin flat out HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. I've concluded week 8 of a 12-week workout/strength conditioning program now and have gone up from 149 lbs to 155 lbs since the beginning of February. My goal is to get to 160 lbs before the end of April. This was all after losing 10 lbs and going down to 145 lbs after a summer of long-distance running. All the mass I have gained is lean muscle, aided by GOOD QUALITY whey protein and nitrous-oxide pre-workout boosters.

During my playoff game this past Tuesday I felt unbeatable. I noticed increased power in my legs in terms of stance endurance, explosive recovery, improved lateral mobility, speed, you name it. It has also helped boost confidence and focus during the game. As goalies it is very hard to find "the zone" where you feel unbeatable, and you cannot just go there on whim. This past Tuesday I was in the zone for the first time in a long time and I'm sure that my workout program helped me get there. We upset the #2 seed 7-1, and my team played great in front of me, but the point still stands.

I realize that Kerlin is 26 years old, and I am 19. We are young and so training comes easier to us. This is not for the faint-hearted. You need to workout 3 times a week and keep playing goal. Not a lot of people have time for that but it DEFINITELY pays off.

I quote Kerlin: "We play a unique position where we have to use every part of our body to make saves. We have to twist, dive, drop, twirl, slide and move our body into a ton of different positions all to keep that little black piece of rubber from crossing a 1" thick line that spans between two pieces of red steel pipe. Keeping our body strong as a whole can only benefit us."

I feel a full-body routine is necessary because it improves your overall game and strength. Naturally, your legs will always be stronger but it is important to work upper body too, including the nooks and crannies. Regular stretching and running also helps improve your game too. I also argue that because you're constantly rebuilding muscle after workouts, stretching becomes easier and I have noticed a big increase in my flexibility.

My last point: My friend's dad is good friends with Burkie and for his birthday we got front row tickets to a Leafs vs. Thrashers game last year. Afterwards we got to go into the dressing room and meet the team. In the weight room, you know what I saw Giggy doing? Lateral shoulder thrusts with a 120 lbs dumbbell. The guy's a tank, even his upper body. This is a great thread -I hope you all find these posts helpful.

[Jamestw]

Goaltending is an endurace sport, Roberto Luongo as an example competes in triathalons during the summer. High endurance athletes tend not to carry large muscle mass as that is actually a detriment to endurance as extra mass equals extra work. You aren't likely to see many NHL goalies with large upper body mass, that's not to say they aren't strong lean muscles aren't that much weaker than the guys walking around who can't even hold their hands at their sides.

[Multipass]

If you do a proper athletic workout like the ones Maria uses (not workouts based on bodybuilding theories) then you will generally find your entire body is stronger and just better syncrhonized.

I don't do any bench presses because I know that I will never have to do a static push of 200lbs as a goalie. Instead I put my feet on a exercise ball and do push ups on a balance board. This works my core strength, upper body strength, balance, and synchs my entire body together, and yea it puffs up my man boobies

Don't worry about being big or small, NHL goalies range from 165 lbs to 220 lbs, they are all athletic freaks who let their genes to dictate their weight. The key is that they all do proper athletic workouts that allow them to perform better as a goalie.