The Dreaded Wrap Around

Hello -- I have 2 distinct questions to ask, lastnight I had a game, and I got beat twice on wrap arounds, I did a split straight down on the goal line to cover low, but they some how managed to find a gap. The first question is how do I play the wrap around better from either the right or left? Which move is the most sucessful for you? One other question on the incoming breakaway either partial or full, I know that challengeing the shooter is critical in order to minimize the net the shooter sees, but is it better to force the shooter to make the shot playing aggressively moving towards the shooter or retreating back with the shooter. The reason I ask this is that I find the shots have a lot less proability going into the by minimizing the scoring space, what are your thoughts on any of this, Thank you very much, O we tied by the way =)

[robbf]

In regards to the wrap-arounds, I know where you're coming from, I hate getting beat that way ! I play mostly roller so this may or may not be of any help, my biggest problem was keeping the puck in sight when a guy was working the back of the net. After reading one of the articles posted in 'The Doctor' section I started using the advice contained within, keep the puck on your trapper side as much as possible, that helped out quite a bit. I also constantly told my teammates to call the side of the net the puck carrier was going to, using "stick" or "glove" to avoid any confusion. The last thing I started doing was to slide my stick to the post on the side the puck carrier was going to and do a t-push/pad slide to that side of the net with the post leg pad upright and the trailing leg pad down and out as far as I could get it. At the time my leg pads squared up with the post I would drive my stick forward/out to cut the option of going tight or wide with the wrap and also to eliminate the quick pass to another forward trying to sneak in and get the one timer. BTW, congrats on being able to do the splits, if I tried that there would be irrepariable damage! This may explain my "method" of playing the wraps. Regarding the breakaway, personally I play a more aggressive style, come out and challenge the shooter trying to take away as much as possible, while still moving back to keep the angle covered. I think TartanBill and Bryan covered this topic quite well in a previous post regarding position,angles etc. IMHO I can rationalize a good shooter beating me with a well placed shot much easier than a mediocre/bad shooter beating me because I was out of position or giving away too much of the net.

[This message has been edited by robbf (edited June 14, 1999).]

[TartanBill]

Freight, Two question for you.
How big are you?
Can you describe the wrap around goal some more? Did the shooter reach around and jam the post? If so the near or far post? Did he cut across the goal mouth?

A tough thing about this play is that the player has everything in front of him, while the goalie is in the middle. The player might hold the puck, but then again he might pass!

I will gladly tell you how I play, but everyone is different. What works for me might not work for you. Caveat emptor!

There are lots of factors when deciding which move to use, and size is one. From my perspective, I am just a bit over 6 ft. tall. This is a common size for pros, but some are bigger (Barrasso, Hextal, Burke, and some are smaller, Fuhr, VanBez)

I have poor lower body flexibility, and short legs for my size. So I cannot do a split, and I try to limit use of the butterfly.

On a wrap around, the first thing I try to do is stay on my feet as long as possible. I could keep one foot on each post, but this puts me in an awkward and immoble position.
I shuffle from post to post with quick side steps. When the shooter commits to a side, I jam my skate to the bottom of that post, then jam the pad up to the knee along that post. I honestly cannot remember the last time someone was able to wrap the puck in low on the post on me.

If the skater trys to come around and cut across the goal mouth, I get low and try to stay square and centered and chest upright. He usually hits my chest or just forgets to shoot.

I used to get beat consistently by using pad stacks. I couldn't get down fast enough and got beat low.

[This message has been edited by TartanBill (edited June 14, 1999).]

TartanBill,

I am about 5'6", the Darren Pang of the goalie world =) Anyways to answer your question it was on the far post, and it was a jam type of shot. I have a game tonight, and I am going to implament a barrel block move in tight, but if that shooter gets out in front I am going to try to stay on my feet. I want to learn as much as I can to try to stop every puck =).

[TartanBill]

Freight

Good! keep thinking through the process.

It took me a long time to learn how to play this effectively. I am not a teacher, so I am sure I am neglecting something important that I do without thinking.

One thing I do that helps me is to write down my analysis of the goals after the game or the next day. I try to log
o Where the shot went in, how well placed
o how hard the shot was
o where the shooter was standing
o passes leading up to the shot
o any mistakes I made leading up to the goal.
a) was I square?
b) centered?
c) did I use the correct move?
d) did I make the first move


It is amazing how many details you can remember of the ones that got in .

As for that far post wrap around, the only thing I have ever found to be effective is prevention. Keep working on your lateral movement and avoid committing to one post too soon. (I know, easier said than done) On the post jam, just getting the skate against the post (while standing) usually is sufficient.

I like to practice tee pushes and shuffles while the puck is at the other end of the ice. It is a great way to keep the muscles warm.

Thank you for the advice. I had a couple wrap arounds lastnight, but the shooter went high in the slot, and the pass was intercepted, I covered the shot low. They never got a goal that way =) Anyways I appreciate your advice, and any useful tips about anything in goaltending that works for you please post, I am sure we can all benefit =) -Thanks-

Thank you for the advice. I had a couple wrap arounds lastnight, but the shooter went high in the slot, and the pass was intercepted, I covered the shot low. They never got a goal that way =) Anyways I appreciate your advice, and any useful tips about anything in goaltending that works for you please post, I am sure we can all benefit =) -Thanks-

[Bernie]

Actually, Robb brought up the strongest point on wraparounds. Make the guy go glove side.

Do this by keeping an eye over your shoulder on the puck (not the shooter!) behind the net while playing your body close to the stick side post. The shooter, obviously tempted not to go on the short side will make his move to your "gaping" glove side. The trick is it's MUCH easier to seal your post on glove side because the stick won't tie up in the net and it's easier to keep the blade flat on the ice. If you lead with your stick on your move to the post (as you should always do), you will quickly get the stick over there, followed by your skate and seal off the wraparound. It is also much easier to barrel-block on the glove side but I try not to do this in case he walks out on me. Another advantage is you can control what side he will try for so you can elimintate the guessing game that you'd have to play if you are in the center of the net.
Obviously, if he does try and go short side on you, that's not a problem- you are already there! Biggest mistake though is not sealing your skate on the INSIDE of the post.

Not that I can do the splits or anything but I find that goalies who can do the splits try to incorporate splits into almost every save making them fairly easy to beat. It takes far longer to drop into the splits than into a butterfly. Plus when you go butterfly and the shot is high it's far easier to compensate than going splits. Finally, if a guy gets you to go down in the butterfly too soon, often you can pop right back on your skates while still holding your glove and blocker in position (it takes LOTS of practice) but you can't do this if you go into the splits too soon! I find it fascinating that so many goalies are obsessed with being able to do splits when the truth is it is very, very rare that it is of any benefit at all and in fact often works against goalies because they try to do splits on every save.
Bernie

[TartanBill]

I have agree with Bernie. But be careful,
some wise guy is going to fake to the far side and reverse if you bite too soon.

I think some of my advice might have been mis-interpreted. Let me try clarify a couple of things.
o You should try to stop the wrap around
while upright, skate and outside of your leg on the inside on the post. Just as Bernie says.
o Use a barrel block sparingly, and only in the right situation. I use this to block a shot for which I am already set, but is through a crowd or to move with a skater who is right in front of me. I cannot reccommend it as a means of moving to cover the post.
o I like to drop the inside leg into a pad save position when my outside leg is jamming the post. This covers much of the net low, and gets me low to cover the puck. On catcher side wraps, I may drop my
stick into the barrel on ice position.
Usually though, you will get a whistle because the puck gets stuck against your skate.

[Kuzma]

I'm going to put my one cent worth in on this. I'm about the same size 5'7" and I have learned that most shooters like to try to go stick side for some reason. Possibly because most are right handed, but even so some lefties still try that side. Very few players try to do it backhanded. But don't read too much in to which side they shoot. The main thing I've learned is that strong lateral movement is a key element in handling players behind the net. I lower my stance a little bit to take away the posts by positioning myself for quick movement. I also make quite a few poke checks on players who come to close. After a few pokes knocking the puck away or to their shins most players don't try it. Of course I make sure to seal the post with my pads and chest before I make the poke.

From personal experience, the best way to prevent a wrap around goal is to force the shooter into doing what you want him to. You may think that is impossible but infact it is quite easy. The best possible spot to be on a wrap around is the right post. This is because it allows you to look over your left shoulder and see the entire net, along with the player. If you can't see the player, guess where he is?...He is coming out the right side, which is where you already are. Easy save if your stick and skate are against the post. The manipulation of the player occurs when he decides to go out the left side. His eyes will pop out of his head when he sees that you are on the right side and he's about to put one in on the left side but as he moves you can easily slide across and take it away because you knew he was going their. This is not a gamble if you keep the puck 2 feet ahead of you on the left side. As the player moves across you move with him but always allowing him to be ahead of you on the left side. This will prevent him from going back the other way on a fake because you're always 2 steps ahead on the opposite side. The 2 feet you give the player should not be enough time to come out infront because the time he takes to do that you are already sliding down (paddle down is quite effective) taking that away. I promise this tip will improve your game of wrap arounds.

[robbf]

Sort of a related question in regards to working a guy behind your net, in the roller league I am in we have a guy who is quite good, national team level and he has an annoying habit of passing the puck to himself off the back of the net. This drives me nuts, I think I have him lined up and one of our defencmen will commit to him, he takes a quick move up or back a few feet, banks the puck off the back of the net, and then makes his move, he hardly ever goes for the wrap but can setup a one timer very well. The thing that almost always throws me is the sound of the puck off the net, unless I stay very focused on the puck I find myself looking off where he is with the puck to "find" it. I don't know how common this is in ice but anyone else run into this ? If so other than staying sharp and focused on the puck any other ideas ? On the occasion that I play out I have tried this myself and have found that a quick fake coupled with the bounce pass off the net can take an unfocused goalie off either post and setup a great wrap around possibility.

The best way to deal with a wrap around to the blocker side is a very hard aggressive sweep check while you slide over and cover the post with your knee. This way in an ideal situation the puck ends up in the corner, and the guy that was carring the puck is now whinning for a penelety while laying on his gut around the dot, usaully no penalety is called. I only had one wrap around go in on me this past season from that side, it works!!

Dang, Fox beat me to it. That move on stick-side wrap-arounds is the best I've ever come to know. It almost always makes contact with the puck, and if it doesn't, it forces the shooter WAY wide or trips him and the puck glides harmlessly away.
Anyway, I've been playing a lot of pick-up hockey this summer, and both in roller and ice, I've been noticing a lot of hotshots behind the net trying that damned Michigan Wolverines goal from a few years back. Everyone remember that? The player behind the net picked the puck up on his stick and whipped it into the top (glove) corner of the net for an OT win. I've had it done once on me, and I almost cried...I vowed from that day forth that no one would ever embarass me like that. So, if you want to make the easy save on this or even stop the player from thinking about it, KEEP THE TOP CORNERS OCCUPIED. If you're on the stick side post, spread out and get your catch glove up near the corner. It's not so bad if he tries stick side corner cuz then you can just explode and get your big fat body and stick in front of him.

Badger I had that lift from behind the net done to me also. A minor league player came to the rink and was showing off during an imprompto pickup game. It is very aggrivating So next time he came by the net I yanked his skates out from under him. It made me feel better.