Rebounds

I am a first year coach on a womans hockey team. Now the goalie i have is in her second year and has had no formal training. She is an amazing goalie, a female Dom Hasek, her only is her abillity to give HUGE rebounds. She definatly has a talent for goaltending and i have tried to explain to her how to keep the rebounds to a minimum but she cant do it! Does anyone have any recomondations on how i should explain this to her? Lord knows i have tried but i may be just a little to technical.Is there a simple way? Or should i just let her play and figure it out as she goes along?

[daemyn75]

Tube skate,

First of all cute name I'm new at goal tending myself and Bernie usually has all the answers. I'll give you my thoughts than turn it over to Bernie for his commentary and Bernie please make it a nice long one.

If she is in her second year, letting her figure it out isn't going to help because she hasn't done it yet it won't happend anytime soon. A lot of it might be her style. Hasek flops around (like you couldn't tell) But momentum like that will cause a lot of rebounds. I noticed using the stick down method taked care of a lot of rebounds. My stick deadens the puck easily and if I angle it right the puck moves inder my waffle to eliminate the rebound. It is something she needs to practice. The best thing I can say is try directing the puck into your glove or covering it. It is the best way to stop the rebound but it won't always work. You might put it in the net yourself. It happens and with a little help she can get the hang of it. Bernie I now turn the forum over to you for you infinate words of wizdom and Bernie I'm low on TP so hook me up.

[Bernie]

Gee, I wish I could get this kinda respect everywhere!

I think you hit the nail on the head about if your movements aren't controlled, you'll give up bad rebounds. It has been said that a good goalie stops a lot of shots but a great goalie controls the rebound.

The first step in controlling a rebound is taking control of your timing on the save. This is the hardest part. Your save should "meet the puck" just as it comes to you. So for example. if you have to make a blocker save (the easiest to control a rebound besides the glove) when the puck comes you, you must also move the blocker TO the puck, angling it in the direction you want the puck to go, and follow through with it. If you just let the puck hit the blocker, it will probably bounce straight out. If noone is around you, you can "give" slightly just as the puck meets, and the puck will fall flat and you can cover (again this IS controlling the rebound if you meant to do this). If you want to send the puck sharply to the corner you must strike at the puck in the direction you want it to go. For the pads it's the same thing- If you just "block the shot" your rebounds will be quite random. But adjust your timing and "meet" the puck with the same kicksave and now more often than not you'll send the rebound to the corner. Relaxing the legs and "giving" will create a soft pad effect and the rebound will die in front of the goalie. Another good trick on longer wrist shots is to trap the puck on the blocker using the glove, holding for a faceoff or whatever. Practice these by having people shoot at the goalie and the goalie tries to make all the the shots either die, rebound to the left, or rebound to the right, or trapping the puck.

Of course this works well on longer shots. Controlling rebound on close in/breakaway shots is nearly impossible. And of course the focus is almost entirely then to make the save rather than worry about the rebound. But there are some things you can do to increase the odds of a favorable rebound.
For example, aside from all the other things I love about the butterfly technique, it also by intrinsic design increases the chance for a good rebound. The pads are already angled to the corners when the goalie is squared to the puck so even by "blocking" the shot the puck will naturally tend to bound off to the side. A standup goalie, by design, will likely spit the puck back straight out from where it came! And with a flop n cover goalie- who knows what will happen?

Also, when butterflying, I try to be aware of what's around me. If a guy is closing in on my left (glove) side and there is a lot of traffic directly to my right, I'll try to angle my blocker so the puck would miss the traffic in front should the puck hit my blocker and rebound.

Easier said than done. Don't expect any goalie to control rebounds from 10 foot shots! But better goalies for the most part will tend to have better rebounds from these because they orient themselves to increase their chances for a good rebound.

Bernie

Daemyn- was that long enough to last while you took a dump?

[daemyn75]

Beautiful Bernie and I had some paper left over for tomorrow after Taco night Took that advice to heart too although a stand up goalie can direct the puck too. Depending I will turn my toes inside or outward. when they are turned in the puck will bounce in them and fall in front of me. Turn them out and it goes to the corners. not the best but it works.

[Bernie]

Yes that's true, Squeal, a standup goalie can control the rebounds too. A good standup goalie is not necessarily worse (or better) than a good butterfly goalie. There are many good standup goalies indeed.

But what I do believe is that by nature, the butterfly is intrinsically more rebound friendly for a goaltender than standup. First, as a standup goalie, to control the rebound you must turn the pad in or out to control the rebound. This means less pad is facing the puck however. If the puck is heading for the right pad, and that pad is square perfectly, the puck will see 12" of pad but bounce straight back. Turning the pad in or out will control the rebound, but also it takes a few inches of pad away from the play.
But a butterfly goalie, properly butterflied, always has the full 12" facing the play.

Secondly, it is almost impossible for a standup style goalie to turn the pad in or out to the proper direction on a close in shot- and it probably wouldn't be advised either since you want to have as much pad area as possible facing the puck anyway. A butterfly goalie however, if he butterflies at the right time is "already" controlling the rebound to some extent.

BUT, Squeal, one defense for standup is that you can send the rebound wherever you want, but in a butterfly it is not only impossible to send a rebound, say, from your left pad off to your right side- but it is PREDEICTABLE TO THE SHOOTER as well!

Fortunately there aren't a lot of smart enough shooters to take advantage of this, but in my last tournament not only did the guys on the Mississippi Mudcats team take advantage of it, but they ate me alive with it! They knew if they shot low, I'd butterfly so if the save was made on my right pad the rebound would go off to my right. Guess which direction they skated towards after shooting to my right or left! Also, on their powerplays, my teammates noticed the guy parked in front of the net wasn't looking so much at the puck carrier, as he was at ME!!! Just like I was constantly positioning myself to stay in front of the puck, so was he constantly positioning himself so to get the angle on any rebound from me. Of course he was also playing far enough away to just bury a one timer if a pass was made. Almost every goal they got off me was from rebounds, and I hardly sent any back up the middle-it's just that they were already in the position where they knew the rebound would go!
Often if I see a guy "waiting" for the rebound I'll give him one alright- I'll send the puck hard in his direction and usually they don't have the quickness to control it and it gives them that "Damn! I missed my chance" feeling. These Mudcat dudes, however, were just too awesome to try that trick on! Everytime I made a save and looked to follow the rebound they already buried it in the net! Were I more of a standup tender I could have probably steered the rebounds better, and looking back I wish I had "softened" my pads, or better yet, have my defensemen catch on to the Mudcat's strategy!

Bernie

[daemyn75]

Bernie my name is Daemyn not Squeal damn it

[Squealagig]

Hey bryan (I know it's you brian it's not really bernie) how did you know I was sending messages telepathically to daemyn for him to type? Are you a psycic too? Isn't it just great to know where the shooters going to shoot before they do?

Come now daemyn my little minion

[This message has been edited by Squealagig (edited October 18, 1999).]

[daemyn75]

Squeal yes I am here for your bidding oh great one and Bernie I know you are out there come to the dark side you will join us?

[Squealagig]

Oh crap I haven't started that stupid starwars talk off again have I?

The only thing we forgot is the greatest rebound controller of all, the stick. I often use my stick to put the puck in the corners (or over the glass) before it gets to my pads.

Also, in my butterfly I have the stick out front of my pads a fair bit and it just catches the puck coming back out. That makes it really easy to grab.

Thaks for all the info.I would like to see her a butterfly style goalie but she is much better when she is just flailing around on the ice. I will try to bring her along though!

[badgerit]

don't try to make her a goalie she's not! Work to her strengths! You don't tell Patrick Roy to play like Dom Hasek (or vice versa)!

That's right. Try to give her the tools to improve.

[daemyn75]

Patrick would never play like Hasek. Would be like a fish trying to swin throught Jello. I agree let her discover what works best for her. and she will develop from there with the correct nerturing and fertilizer she will grow to be great.

[Brett]

A few comments on a subject that I consider to be of ultimate importance. As Bernie brought up, there are tons of good goalies that can stop first shots out there. As a matter of fact (and I know this isn't relevant to your particular situation), at the higher levels of hockey, certainly by Junior and beyond, every goalie is simply expected to stop the first shot. If you don't, look for a new job. At this point, how those shots are handled is what separates who continues in the game from who tells anyone who will listen how they got screwed. Controlled first shots limit second and third shot opportunities, and simply put, are a key to your team's overall success.

I believe there are two fundamental components to handling rebounds. The first, I am surprised to say, was not well addressed by any of the previous responses. The first component to go over in detail with your goaltender is "what do you want to do with the puck". That's right, make sure she understands what options are available to her, and why one may be preferable than the other. Sounds obvious, but having a clear understanding of what you are trying to accomplish and why is the necessary first step towards long term success.

On any given shot, our goalies' priorities are to (in order of most desirable to least desirable):
1. Stop and control the shot so you can freeze or move the puck. (Utopian, but an absolute standard)
2. Put the shot to the corner (old faithful) or over the glass and out of play
3. Put the rebound where the other team is not (Something Bernie was having trouble with vs. the mudcats)
4. Give the rebound right back to the player who shot it, rather than to your sides where it will be an easy tap-in goal. This is somewhat radical in it's thinking, but makes perfect sense. It is better to give a second shot to the player you're already facing than to put it off to your sides to an uncovered man that you are not centered on. (*More on this later)

Notice that there's more to life than old faithful, so don't let your world shrink down to "put it in the corner." That ignores both the more preferable option and the more likely scenarios when facing tight situations. Bernie touched upon the fact that many close in situations don't allow for the great "textbook" rebound control, and this is where the third and fourth priorities have to be recognized.

I am sure that there are some of you out there thinking to yourself, "Yea Right, I'm supposed to think about all of this while a shots coming?" Ummm, in a word, yes! But I find personally, and have been told by students that are learning it, that once the options are clear in your head, split second decisions come quite naturally.

So, now your student knows where she wants to put to put the puck. How does she do it? If she has an ounce of talent (which you say she does), and she FOLLOWS THE PUCK ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE SAVE, she will find a way to send the puck where she wants. Yup, that's right. There are technical things she can work on (some of which have been brought up) but the cold, simple, hard facts of life are that if she doesn't see the puck hitting her body, she will not consistently be able to direct where it goes. THE COLD, SIMPLE, HARD FACTS OF LIFE ARE THAT IF SHE DOESN'T SEE THE PUCK HITTING HER BODY, SHE WILL NOT CONSISTENTLY BE ABLE TO DIRECT WHERE IT GOES. Yea, I feel strongly about this, and it drives me crazy when I see well schooled and semi-talented goalies unable to understand and get over this hurdle. If there is someone standing to my right when I make a blocker save, by potentially rotating my wrist an inch I can put the puck in front of, behind, or right on the stick of the attacker. Being aware of the puck and your body at the point of impact allows you to make the small corrections that get the puck out of danger. Want to put the puck on the stick of your winger and initiate a quick breakout instead of old faithful? A simple flick of the wrist will do it. But if your not watching the puck all the way, who knows where it's going to go. Certainly not you.

A word on Bernie's foray into the merits of going down to the ice to stop pucks. I do agree that going down to the ice is "intrinsically more rebound friendly for a goaltender than standup" Why? Because it puts your head, and eyes, closer to the puck, making it easier to follow the puck, making it easier to act upon the puck. In other words, it takes less talent to control the rebound on a low shot from your knees than it does from your feet.

I cannot overstate the importance of this subject to the success of my students. I am sure that Bernie and the other coaches here will agree that for their students playing higher levels of hockey, this is an area that is constantly returned to and hammered on. Hopefully something can be gleaned from this.