Ketosis/Ketones explained

[Bernie]

If you are not interested in the nutrition debate in the "love handles" thread, you may want to leave.

I got a few e-mails asking about what the hell Bryan and I are arguing about especially with "ketosis" and "Caloric Deficit"- I forgot that there are new people on the board now that missed our original argument.

I'm just gonna try to present the FACTS that these diets are based on- whether or not you agree with the theories that are drawn from these facts is up to you, but it will certainly help you understand the argument better.

As you read this, your body is burning a fuel which is called adenosine triphosphate, or ATP. This fuel comes mostly from glucose- which is from carbohydrates, but some also comes from protein and fat. The fuel produces energy which we measure by the term CALORIES. Calories are not fuel- it is a measurement of energy- like "degrees" is to heat. In the old days, we used to measure the energy from food with a "calorimeter" (aka Bomb calorimeter). Basically, you'd weigh a plate of food, light it on fire till it burns completely, and weigh it again. The difference in weight can be computed as how many calories there were (because the "energy" from the food burns away). Eventually, a pattern was noticed where all Carbohydrates had 4 calories per gram, all Proteins also had 4 calories per gram, and all Fats had 9 calories per gram. So basically fat has over 2X as many calories as carbohydrate. This would seem like you'd want to eat lots of fat then because you'd get lots of energy! But that's not right for two reasons. First, your body cannot process the calories (energy) from fat NEARLY as efficiently as from carbohydrate. Secondly, because of the first reason, calories from fat tend to be stored away until needed later.
Calories from carbohydrate however are converted right to glucose and stored right in liver and also directly in the muscles where they can be very efficiently converted into energy by the muscles. This stored glucose is called GLYCOGEN.
Calories from protein are also converted to glycogen, but in efficiency between that of fat and carbs. Proteins are really preferred by your body for their amino acids which build new tissues, cells, and stuff.

As you read this then, you body is burning glucose from the carbs, but also a little fat as well. In some people they burn more fat, and others burn less fat. Also some people just plain burn more total calories in a day than others even at rest. This is just differences in METABOLISM. Basically, however most humans need about 2000 calories of energy a day, and with all the glucose hanging around and certainly everyone has extra fat hanging around- and when you consider your diet, no matter how sloppy it may be, there's obviously plenty of energy to fill the 2000 calories needed!

The PROBLEMS start when you get extra calories over what your body burns in a day. Even though, like I said carbohydrates are very efficiently converted to glucose and stored as glycogen, you can't just pile up this stuff forever. So if you overeat on carbs to the point where you are way over that 2000 calorie mark, you'll start to store that extra energy away- as FAT! This also happens if you take in too much calories from fat, or protein. So now you're storing fat! That means you'll gain weight and look fat!
Time to take action!
One way to do it is the way I recommend. A combination of Caloric Deficit and Aerobic Exercise. Caloric deficit means you lessen your caloric intake below what you need each day so you can't store your calories away as fat. You can still eat fat or whatever you want, but you have to remember that fat has 9 calories per gram (twice as many as carbs and protein, remember) so it's best to avoid fat so you can eat satisfyingly. Also remember calories from carbs are less likely to be stored as fat in the first place. But now that you have the problem of fat storage eliminated, your body won't just burn away fat. The caloric deficit itself will cause a lot of water weight to be lost, and possibly some more fat loss because some more fat may be slowly used to make glycogen to fill the caloric deficit, but not a lot, and only for a while which is why "crash diets" are so temporary. You gotta concentrate on the fat, that's where the AEROBIC EXERCISE comes in.
Normally, again, your body burns glucose, which is ANaerobic. When you exercise you burn more glucose. When you exercise hard you burn even more. Well, after a point your body says "Hold on- this guy's trying to run me dry! Time to bring in the reserves!" So you switch over to burning mostly FAT (AEROBIC) why? Remember fat has TWICE as much energy as glucose (9calories per gram vs 4 calories per gram). You're still burning carbs too, but you're now really running more off of fat.
This event takes place after about 20 minutes of continuous exercise. It's what gives you your "second wind" or "runner's high" when you run a long time.
It sounds like your body should always be burning fat then but the problem is fat burning is not nearly as responsive or efficient as carbohydrate burning. Burning glucose is like burning gasoline- it's explosive, fast burning stuff but it gets used up very quickly. Burning fat is like burning an oil lamp- it lasts a LOT longer, but it's not nearly as explosive or combustable.
That's why a marathon runner can't just blast full speed 20 miles into a race- he's running off his body fat and doesn't have the explosive energy. He'd make a very bad goaltender at this point because you want to be at peak explosive form for quick movements as a goalie- from carbohydrate fuel! Most athletes actually function anaerobically- they require fast explosive movements but not constantly- like a baseball player sprinting to first, or a football player running a play. So just because you play sports doesn't mean you'll burn fat!! You MUST do the 20 minutes at least of continuous exercise- like running, or stairstepper. This burns the fat, not just for the time you exercise, but even for up to 4 hours after you stop!!! SO even when you rest you'll be burning fat for a while before switching back to regular glucose burning. Again, you body doesn't want to keep burning fat because it's not as efficient. (If you could run a marathon ONLY off your glycogen you'd half the world record! That's why runners "carb pack" so they can run off carbs as much as possible and also so they don't deplete themselves of carbs before the race ends because you still burn some carbs even in aerobic mode!) Also, if you only burned fat all the time, you also create harmful byproducts called KETONES which if must be removed, and also after a point, burning mostly off fat will really sink you into a "blah" because your energy is not as efficient, especially since not only does your body prefer glucose fuel, but you brain MUST have it to be healthy!
This is obviously simplified, even though confusing, but the major points are shown.

Now, for Ketosis/ketogenics. In the 1970's is when this actually started but it's really gained popularity nowadays. It was not until earlier this year I finally read this information to interpret it. Dr. Robert Atkins was the guy in the 70's who introduced it, and now his new book "The New Diet Revolution" is like wildfire and he's finally become successful of his idea.
Basically, Atkins agrees with everything I said above- you gotta burn the fat. The difference is he has a different way to go about it. You can "force" the body to burn fat by depleting the carbohydrates, and then there's nothing left to burn but-fat! Remember I said your body normally burns glycogen. This is true, but what is also true is if you take away the glycogen, you will indeed burn only fat as Dr Atkins said. How do you do this? By bringing your carbohydrate intake down to near zero! Only eat fats. Your body is forced into fat burning mode then and you should lose weight because you are burning fat all day and night!! The process of burning fats is called "Ketosis" and people in ketosis know it because they get huge increases in "ketones" (fat byproducts) in their blood which is known as "Ketoacidosis". Type I diabetics know of this well- without insulin shots, their disease does not let them use glucose to burn as fuel- so they switch to fat burning (ketosis), one sign of which is that you lose weight without even trying!
Strangely, a diabetic in ketoacidosis sees his doctor at once, while a dieter on the Atkin's jumps with glee at finally reaching this milestone. Supposedly the Ketones in a healthy person get urinated out and the person lives happily this way until reaching desired weight. I am not nearly as informed in this as in normal metabolism, but I suppose once desired weight is achieved the person resumes a normal diet?
Eating carbs in this diet is a definite NO-NO because it will reverse the ketosis prematurely or prevent it from ocurring at all and the person won't lose weight.

(personal note- can you see how someone who only reads only that last sentence of this lengthy post might misconstrue that carbohydrates CAUSE weight gain)

One other note about the Ketogenic Diet- a MAJOR reason for it's awareness now is not from dieting but from seizure control! It has been found that there may be some value in putting SEVERELY seizure disordered children on ketogenic diets. We're talking kids who are so disordered they are mentally retarded because they spend much of their day in seizures and thus are closed off to the world.
I have friends, Robert and Cindy, who's big hearts took them to Cambodia where they adopted 3 children. The two boys, 8 and 9 yrs old are fine except for they are hyperactive pains in the butt who destroy everything in my house when they come over.
The third one, Maria, who is now 4 suffered since her first year with extremely severe seizure disorder. Every medicine and even brainsurgery available has failed and out of desperation they tried the ketogenic diet.
You would not believe it if you saw it! Bacon grease! Butter! Cream! Cheese made from cream! Cream with sugar substitute whipped and frozen to make "ice cream" (no sugar remember!) 4 or 5 times a day!!!
The seizures, Rob and Cindy say, definitely lessened for about a year. I didn't disagree with them even though everytime they came over Maria still has seizures and still doesn't walk or talk yet even after over a year on the diet. And I definitely wouldn't say this is an energetic child. She sleeps a good 15 hours a day. I personally think because of her mental condition it isn't even possible, nor is anyone thinking to see if the high blood ketones and/or lack of glucose might be causing brain damage.

Got off track there, but there's more information than you'll never need.

Bernie

[Aaron]

Bernie, when I was on that diet (500 cal. a day) I had to give the doctor a urine sample weekly. This was to see if my keytones were working (breaking down fat).

He also told me I had to do the minimum of 20 min. of aerobic exercise daily. This worked great. When I lost the weight, after a 2 hour scrimmage, I would hardly be tired. My new year's resolution is to get back on track. I've been doing it about every other day lately, and I need to get back into the program.

Wow... haven't seen someone post so much in a long time. The diet your refering to is a good way of going about losing weight, but, there's a flaw in it. Even if you do lose this unwanted weight your still going to regain it when you stop and return to your normal diet! Inorder to keep these pounds off after you use the diet you must ALSO change your normal diet to something more healthy or you'll just be backpeddaling. You'll need to eat both carbos and fats/protiens but in moderation. Staying to the 'fat diet' indefinitly will hurt you but going back to you diet that made you "fat" isn't going to help you either.My mom whent through this problem for a while and you'll be supprised what can happen if you add some more salads, fish and chicken ,cooked well, ( not fried or sauted) to your diet perminantly. In my opinion "crash diets" don't help anyone; you've got to change your origional diet perminantly.

[Squealagig]

I think probably the best way to diet is to not do it all at once but do it gradually. like one week start drinking 1% milk instead of 2%. The week after that drink apple jucie instead of coke. That way you can slowly ajust to eating healthtyer things instead of giving up everything you like all at once. You won't lose fat fast but at least it should stay off.

[daemyn75]

Squeal you must be my clone I am down to Skim milk now I will call you Mini goalie.

P.S. Bernie I am done wall papering the house you can stop now

[This message has been edited by daemyn75 (edited December 29, 1999).]

[Bernie]

You still kill me daemyn!!!

Sounds like you guys are on the right track- especially about the gradual diet method, that's a great idea.

The really nice thing if you've read that long post is if you remember that information, you are armed very well to defend against 95% of the scams and misinformation- in fact some of them seem funny!

For example- on www.fatfacts.com, the guy claims "It's not the food you eat that makes you fat- it's the fat you eat that makes you fat!" Which sounds somewhat accurate, but now you know that it is indeed the food you eat that makes you fat because too much food, even fat free food, gets stored as fat! So you know to ignore this doofus!

Also, on "www.holdthetoast.com" a woman talks about a low carb, high fat diet allowing her to lose 40 lbs without exercise! And she eats as much as she wants and still loses weight! (for $29.95 she'll send you a book about it). Well, using your knowledge you laugh at this! If she's eating as much fat as she wants, she's getting TWICE the calories as if she ate all the carbs she wants- and without exercise to burn it off, how can she possibly burn more fat than she consumes?

And also you'll start to notice that almost ALL the gimmicks like fat creams, fat blockers, magnets, or whatever also require "this product must be used along with a low calorie diet and exercise to be effective". Gee, I wonder why!

Bernie

[Squealagig]

Actually I have to admit I'm still drinking 2% but I'm planning on drinking skim but I don't buy the milk so I have to go speak to the woman who does I do always get an apple juice instead of coke now but if I have a second glass then I usually go with coke or something. so it aint tooo great but it is workin'.

Bernie, I can't even remember my best freinds phone number how'd you expect me to remember all that?

Dieting shouldn't be something your doing it should be a lifestyle change. you can't eat all low fat stuff one week and then go back to your regular diet and expect to keep off any weight that you lost. And if you treat yourself to two greese burgers once in a while it doesn't matter just as long as you don't go over the top and start eating them every week. Well thats what I think anyhows.

[This message has been edited by Squealagig (edited December 30, 1999).]

[Bernie]

Oh one thing, Steven's post is very correct. For example, Aaron would never be expected to stay on a calorie deficit like that forever (500 calories a day is very low indeed!). Like Steve said, once the goal is accomplished, you may then increase your caloric intake again- BUT it must now be BALANCED from then on so the calories in=calories out. That is how you "keep" your results. Aaron could easily have a 2500-3000 calorie diet if he maintains the exercise and he will remain at his weight. Maybe he needs a little less calories- he'd have to monitor his weight over time to see what his metabolism allows.

Good luck this year Aaron.
Bern

In addition to various fad diets, you've probably also seen commercials for products like FatBlocker or other drugs that say they block absorption of fat. For the most part these claims tend to be true, but there are side effects to them, most of which are minimized by eating a low-fat diet (although if you were doing that in the first place, you wouldn't need one of these things). One of the side effects is that these drugs will inhibit absorption of the fat soluble vitamins (A,E,K and D). That's why WOW! chips are fortified with these vitamins to offset the increased excretion of them. The second thing is that fat that remains undigested causes proliferation of various bacteria in the lower intenstinal tract which cause gas, bloating, cramps, etc. The best way I've heard of losing wait is drop your caloric intake by 300 calories/day (basically 2 candy bars) until you reach your desired wait. You're not going to turn slim overnight, but it also is less likely to activate your body's starvation response.

Hey Daemyn let's get everyone started on the MRE diet!! MMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! I call the catfood with rice!!!!!

[Squealagig]

I just read that banging your head against a wall consumes about 150 calories an hour as well you consume about a tenth of a calorie when ever you lick a stamp. So keep off the stamps and start head banging

[This message has been edited by Squealagig (edited January 02, 2000).]

[daemyn75]

Hammer I acctually like MRE's ok so back off. but they have entirely too many calories for me.

I was a Survival Instructor before I busted my leg so I totally agree with you I love MRE's, bugs what ever won't eat me first... So 3000 cal and what is it about 1000 mg of sodium is too much for ya??? The only bad part of MRE's is when they come out!!

[daemyn75]

And the frequency of which they come out. Damn now that I know the amount of calories and sodiun I can see why Rangers live off one a day.

[Squealagig]

Ok so whats an MRE? is it like a power bar cus' those are revolting.