Stance (Butterfly)

Quuuuueeessssttiiioooonnn....

I've been told (or advised to..) "close up" my legs more in my stance. I play a butterfly, and so this presents a problem for me.

The way I usually play, my legs are pretty far apart (but not ridiculously wide by any means) somewhat of a potvin like style. I've been advised to close this up so that there is only the length of blade between my legs.. that's no problem, but the problem comes in executing my butterfly.

Normally, I can just drop to my knees, and with my stance already wide, everything "falls" into place just right and I get my perfect butterfly. If I close up my stance, I have trouble executing my regular butterfly in one single motion. I am having to make an effort to almost hop so that my feet are far enough apart then bring my knees down. It's a very disjointed motion.

Any advice on what I should do? With my legs spread apart I lose a bit of my leg strength in moving crease to crease, but it hampers my butterfly to such a degree that it's disadvantages outweighs it's advantages.

[Bernie]

Yeah this sounds like me- I'm always told my legs look like "The Golden Arches" but I just can't play if they're closer in.

Obviously, as I adjust for the angle I may well have the pads totally shut in some instances, but in general, my opinion is that if I get down to the ground fast enough and close the hole, I should be fine. I try to keep my stance low as possible to achieve this.

That's just me though- maybe I'm wrong.

One thing I do, however, if I know my legs are wide apart- I also move my goalstick OUT more so it "cuts off the angle on my 5 hole" much like you'd come out to cut off the angle on the net, if you follow.

Bernie

[badgerit]

I play a real wide stance too for the same reasons Bernie stated plus one--it's works well to bait the shooter 5-hole when you know that you're low enough to be able to close it faster than he can shoot.

[Aaron]

In this month's issue of Goalie's World they analyze Nikoli Happy-boolin's style. You should see his stance. It it so wide it's rediculous! The 5 hole is super wide, but it is so low he doesn't have to drop far at all to close it up. They show how he is a reaction goalie vs. more of a blocking goalie. He crouches so low in his stance it's unreal the bend in his legs. I like this approach.

A guy I play with who cannot skate but wears skates (in over a year, this guy's NEVER made a kick/pad save) stands with his legs completely together. No matter where the puck is, this is his stance. I don't feel any balance in this kind of stance. Plus you can't get any "snap" in a kick/pad save from this position in my opinion. Maybe it's just me.

[Bryan]

I swear you guys are all talking about me!

I've been told many times that my stance is too wide and too low, but my balance and power is just not there unless I'm "loaded-up" ready to explode outward. I had a goalie coach spend an entire hour once just forcing me to stand with my feet closer and my body more upright when facing shots from the top of the circle. This was a disaster. I couldn't get my butterfly down fast enough and I couldn't reach shots for the corners with my toes. I even had trouble with my catcher and my stick, since my hands weren't starting off in what is a natural position for me. I'm sure this guy had good intentions, and He did play goal for the Jets so I'd think he knew what he was taking about (yes, I checked up on him Brett!), but this simply didn't work for my body mechanics.

I actually find my lateral movement is better too when I'm really low, since I'm almost already in position for a full or half butterfly slide.

[This message has been edited by Bryan (edited November 14, 1999).]

[daemyn75]

AMEN!!! I have that same problem but now that I am doing well in the goal everyone wants to fine tune me. Well I like my style and stance (not a butterfly but working on it) of paddle down. I feel the lower you are the faster you can drop or move across the goal from side to side.

[Aaron]

I've started to use a very deep knee bend and a wider stance in some situations. I feel it is more beneficial than standing with the legs together. I have strong legs so this is fine with me. This type of stance gives me a lower center of gravity and better balance. The guys go 5 hole on me much more now, but I'm so low that I can butterfly quickly and close it up.

In the book by Jacques Plante he shows a picture of the "proper" stance. He's standing with the legs totally together and the catcher at the knees. This would be fine for a bad angle shot, but other than that I never use this stance.

You'd have to have some FAST legs to make a long kick save with this stance!

[Stubby]

I have the same problem. My goalie coach is telling me to close my legs more but it just doesn't feel normal. With my legs this close together, I simply can't get down fast enough to cover the five-hole. Bad angle shots, however, are another matter. I haven't really noticed shooters going five-hole on me though. Could this be because I'm only in Bantam and shots still aren't completely precise?

Stubby

[This message has been edited by Stubby (edited November 15, 1999).]

At the risk of sounding a bit repetitive...

"Hey guys, that sounds like me!"

The stance width I play really does depend on the angle and distance of the shot. Those bad angle shots demand a stand up wall. But when it's a point blank point shot I get real wide and choke out... because he knows how good his position is and he's gonna shoot.

It's beautiful. I took a picture of myself from the puck's point of view, and if you get your feet really wide, all the guy has to shoot at is the five-hole. Nothing else anywhere. No corners low, and he needs a laser tracking device to hit the high corner (especially since all he sees is gonna be BIG FIVE HOLE.) After that, it's just a matter of closin up.

I get a little confused on the tweeners. The shots that aren't from the perfect slot angle, and that also aren't from the brutal side. I get thinkin: "Should I go butterfly, or should I stack?" And when I'm thinking it over he drills it by my (and often through me.) Yuch.

AB

[CKeelty]

Frankly, it sounds to me like a combination of two things: one, your goalie coaches are old, and still trying to coach butterfly goalies to play like stand-up goalies. And two, you guys rely far too much on your butterfly.
A deep-knee flex, wide-stance will allow you to butterfly fast, and yes, it will draw the shooter into shooting 5-hole. But the problem is that it limits the power you can get into a kick or skate save (as if anyone ever does skate saves anymore) and it inhibits your ability to move laterally. Also, any goalie who opens up a wide-stance IS going to butterfly, on EVERY shot, and you're telling every good shooter "shoot for the top corners if you want a goal," which isn't bad--better the top corners than 5-hole--but it would be better to react, rather than always going down.
I've played with goalies (and really, at times I've been a goalie) who might as well have played the entire game in the butterfly position. Why bother standing up, after all, if all you're going to do is butterfly on EVERY shot?
The best thing, in my opinion, is to use a semi-wide stance, where your feet are just over shoulder-width apart. This way you can go to the butterfly quickly, but you can also move side-side or stand up and make a save with the gloves. Those elbow-saves and "hand from the grave" gloves are pretty, but not nearly as safe as a stand-up glove save.

Of course, this is just a basic system I'm advocating. Sometimes that ultra-wide stance is good, especially if you've got stupid shooters who can't resist that gaping 5-hole.

Chris

hey aaron ya known that picture that you are referin to thats basically me i am probably the only strict stand up goalie left and the sides are easy enough to cover ya just use your blade insted of your pads

[Aaron]

The blade of your stick? Sheesh if you can hit that puck flyin' at ya with your stick every time, go play pro baseball j/k

I like my feet about shoulder width. I stand blocking when the puck is on the side of the net and in a few situations, but I rarely use it.

Heheh.. could anyone point out the usefulness of a skate save? Frankly, being a younger goalie, I've never seen ANYONE use it before in game action... whether it be on TV, etc.. Trying to attempt it in practice, it seems to be very awkward, and for that situation which I suppose would warrant the use of a skate save I would use either the half butterfly or sliding half butterfly if need be...


I'm guilty as charged of dropping to my knees on every shot, but getting being high hasn't ever been a problem for me, and I must say I'm more comfortable with doing my glove says from a half-butterfly (or sometimes even gasp.. splits) position.. plus it's a crowdpleaser.. making the shooter aim high anyways gives him a much tougher shot than low either side.. as the opportunity for the puck to miss is that much greater..

I use the skate save (typically only on my right side, I have troubles with my left knee), and I'm very quick with it. I can use it on a slapper from the point to put the puck in the corner, or to make a stop when I'm t-gliding into position.

I also use it on breakaways. There's nothing sweeter than turning with a deking shooter, staying on your feet and stopping them with the skate. Every shooter expects a goalie to stick out a pad or do a pad stack. You can really confuse them doing this.

if i face a low shot to my right ill sk8 save to my left pad slide or half butterfly and on higher shots i stand up to em and this works 99 percent of the time for me hee!hee! i wish its a littel lower but im no crap goalie