Butterfly Pop-up - ALLSTARTHREAD

I was watching the local Double A team, and the goalies were both doing the "pop-up" from the butterfly. I unsuccessfully tried doing this for a couple of practices. I have heard that Overdrive helps, but is there a way to do it without using it?. Can anybody help?

I typically do this with a little hop from my knees up to my skates. Usually I push my body up (by pushing my butt forward a bit, it's like sitting up) and while the rest of my body is rising I pull my feet up under me. This is something I have even practiced in my front room.

I've heard a number of opinions on how useful it is though. Do it 10 or 20 times in a row and you will find out it is quite tiring. Most goalies will get up one skate at a time. Once in a while in a pressure situation I will use it.

Try leaning back a bit before popping back up. It seems to help me.

[Bryan]

I'm not trying to brag, but this is something I can do quite well. We used to practice this a lot in Bantam for some reason. Funny thing is, I almost never use it in a game situation. The only time I really do it is as a 'show off' move after the play is dead. sort of the same thing as flipping the puck up and landing it on the back of your catcher for the ref. Shows the opposition that you're 'in the zone'.

[Brett]

Good observation, Bryan. This is one of those moves that comes into vogue between the ages of 12 and 16, then recedes when the goalie realizes that it does nothing for him, and actually is detrimental.

Why would we be in a rush to get up from a butterfly? Because we have something else to do, be it reacting to another shot, or moving to get centered for another shot. That said, the fundamental problem with "popping" back up is that it DEMANDS that you throw your weight and balance backwards. And we all know what happens to us when our balance is thrown back. We get screwed. We are unable to react forcefully for another shot without falling on our ass, and we can't skate in any direction until we get our weight forward again.

We all know that in a butterfly, our hands and chest are set the same as they are when we are standing in a stance... forward and over, or even in front of, our knees. Getting up 1 leg at a time, albiet very quickly 1 leg at a time, allows us to keep that weight forward, and enables us to be in a better position to react to whatever comes next.

On the other hand, if you have made the save, the puck has been cleared, and your team is bearing down on the other goalie on a 3 on 0, by all means "pop" back up to your feet.

It looks cool.

Thanks for the info guys. Come to think of it, they only used to after the play was dead. I think i will stick to getting up one leg at a time

Getting up after a butterfly with the 'popping motion' is a must to learn.

It is much faster than getting up one leg at a time and you are not off balance you off angle when popping up after the butterfly.

I always use the 'popping up' motion after going down in the butterfly. As soon as I go down I pop right back up.

I have heard of the over-ride blade and I asked the owners of a local hockey shop. They are very knowledgable(sp?) about hockey. They worked with the LA Kings before. They told me the over-ride played doesn't really do anything.

However, I must add that popping up is much harder on a clean sheet of ice. It is much easier if your pads a damp and the ice is soft or snowy.

[Kuzma]

I must say this is a first Brett, but I'm going to have to disagree on when it should be used. When you do it there is no problem gaining balance cause you're on your feet. Then you can make those saves that you can't always reach if you're off to one side of the net. Or it could be that I'm just short and have to.
When you're on your feet you're in a better position to react to moving pucks. If you're still on the ground you can't get up and follow the puck with your chest.
I am not how ever saying that you should do it every time. That would kill almost anyone of us.

[Aaron]

Another option is to play like the goalie I play with on Sunday's. He can't skate so he plays about %75 of the game on his knees. We call him the "Head Nurse" Too bad noone is much of a shooter where I play. They seem to go low every time. If they could just get the puck up about 2 feet, they'd score 100 on him easy.

[Brett]

Well, we agree to disagree here I guess.

"It is much faster than getting up one leg at a time and you are not off balance you off angle when popping up after the butterfly."

NO. (Sorry, there's no other response to this)

Let's clarify matters. When we talk about getting up after a butterfly, we are not talking about getting back to our feet. (Kuzma listening?) Here we go. I'm standing up now, over my keyboard. I'm on my feet, but I am in no position to effectively react to a shot. I can turn around, grab the water bottle bottle off the net, scratch my ass, and remain on my feet. I won't be in any shape to react to a shot. RETURNING TO YOUR FEET ISN'T THE ISSUE.

The issue is returning to your stance. Weight forward, solid and set.

That said, based on my experience playing and coaching, I do simply do not agree that it is "much faster" to get up by jumping with both legs. As I meant to get across in my previous post, the "popper" may get to his feet faster, but getting up to his feet requires that he throw his hands and/or shoulders and/or chest backwards. Being on your feet with your weight back on your heels is akin to being tied to the spot. You will be off balance trying to make your next move, be it a save attempt or skating manouver.

The marginal (if that) time gained by "popping" to your feet is lost getting back to a set, properly balanced stance. Again, getting up one leg at a time allows you to keep your chest and arms forward, keeping your balance positioned out over your knees, so when you reach your feet, you are already set in your stance. What's more, if a shot comes while you are recovering, the fact that your balance is forward allows you to react powerfully.

"If you're still on the ground you can't get up and follow the puck with your chest."

Again I disagree. Granted you won't be spinning any Exorcist 360's(would be nice), but your trunk IS able to move independently from your legs. From my knees I am perfectly able to square my shoulders to the direction that the rebound is going, and recover at the same time.

If you want to test this theory, don't waste your time seeing how long it takes you to do 10,20,30 butterflies. Who cares? Instead, put yourself down in your butterfly on the top of the crease. Put a shooter in the slot, have him bang his stick on the ice (at which point you can get up) before shooting, and see which recovery lets you react more forcefully to the shot. Then up the ante and put a shooter inside each face off dot. Again, start in your butterfly at the top of your crease, and on a signal, recover and move laterally to get centered on the oncoming shot. See which recovery allows you to move and get centered on the puck most efficiently.

Hey, "popping' may work for you. I certainly won't say your lying. In 6 years of Junior and College Hockey though, and about 9 years of teaching, I have yet to see a goalie who could move better that way. But it isn't as if rules aren't made to be broken. I just seriously recommend that you take a close look at your total recovery time, and the position you are recovering to, when you compare recoveries.

Good luck

PS - "They told me the over-ride played doesn't really do anything." I'm not sure what you are refering to here GoalieHawk, so I can't really comment.


[This message has been edited by Brett (edited November 16, 1999).]

[Kuzma]

Okay I see what you mean, but for some reason when I play I get beat when I'm down.
I'll have to have someone tape me with your test though. But I seem to get beat when I'm down. I guess the way I play is the exception to the rule. Maybe that's all. I'm just different.

[daemyn75]

Brett you knew I was out of TP didn't you great post my friend.

Brett - I believe he was referring to the overdrive blade (www.overdriveblade.com) affectionally called a "scrap piece of metal" by someone on this BB not too long ago.. it's that blade you drill to the inside of the skate which supposedly let's you pop up from the butterfly with ease..yeeah..rite..

Actually It does work. But you have to be a good skater and know how to use your edges. It's also a backup if you main skate blade get nicked and you can't hold a wide stance in the scramble. You also need real good flexiablilty and strength.

Yes, I was referring to the over-ride blade. By looking at the website it seems that this is a miracle product for goaltenders. Although I do have my doubts.

Now, back to the other issue at hand.

While in the butterfly your knees are in the form of a V.

You have options of how you want to regain your position or stance. Either by popping up or using one leg at a time.

It really doesn't matter. Different strokes, different folks. However, popping up will always be superior because it requires less time and motion.