Faster heart, better tender?

[Bryan]

This page from the mayo clinic isn't exactly new, (it's almost two years old!) but I thought it might be of interest.

http://mayohealth.org/mayo/9802/htm/hockey.htm

I'm holding off on my smart ass commentary until some of you get a chance to read it.

[This message has been edited by Bryan (edited September 08, 1999).]

[Aaron]

I didn't read the link, i was in a hurry. But I have read somewhere that a study was done, and goalies that have a higher heart rate performed better. They hooked up the goalies during games with monitors etc. then evaluated their performance. I guess the guy who had a higher rate reacted faster.

[Aaron]

Hey, that IS the report I read

[Bernie]

Hey- interesting report Bryan!

In fact, I went to the library to pick up the actual full length paper- it is over 37 pages! The study seems well done, but I have to finish reading it.

They used heart monitors and a puck shooting machine for most of the study's data collection. They also videotaped the goalies to add "pressure" to their situation. But they charted a comparison of sorts between the pressures of hockey goaltending and other events/sports. Surprisingly, and probably innaccurately, they rated "Band performance" as about 3X more pressure than "High School Goaltending". In other words, its less stressful for you to make the game winning save in your high school championship than it is for the drummer in the band to play the school's victory theme after the game! Hmmmmm....

This woman scientist who did this study is obviously a huge hockey fan, I found 3 more papers with similar research on ice hockey players- including injuries and psychological/phsyiological profiles. When I read them I'll give you an update.

Bernie

[Squealagig]

I haven't read the link yet but I think it would make sence as a fitter person generally has a higher heartrate while doing strenuous stuff while a fat slug generally is less fit has a lower heart rate and tiers more easyly as well as having less muscle mass. Although I could be confused about this as I get confused very easyly.

p.s. If their are any fat slugs (or other slimy creatures) on this BB please don't take offence to my post I was just talking generally.

Hm, interesting study, though I'd like to know how many of the goalies who stopped 100% of the shots were 14-18 years old as that's usually when kids get their growth spurts and tend to take up lots more net. If it turns out that a whole lot of the "better performing goalies" were of older age, then it might be prudent to have checked everyone by age to see how their heart rates compare in high-stress situations.

As to Squealagig's racist hateful comment against fat slugs (or other slimy creatures), I'll have you know that my father's a fat slug...

Actually, I think the way it goes is that people who are in shape have lower heart rates because their hearts don't have to work as hard to get the blood moving. A fat slug (or other slimy creature) gets tired out because his heart can't beat fast enough to get oxygenated blood everywhere, and, to boot, he can't breathe enough air to supply all his fat slug tissues in high intensity environments. This is why you'll see out of shape people psyche themselves up for a flight of stairs or stop and recover after getting to the top. Miguel Indurain, ex-cyclist who won the Tour de France LOTS of times, was one of the most in shape people in the world...his resting heart rate was approximately THIRTY (30!!!) beats a minute. Compare that to average Joe Shmoe who has a heart rate of 60 beats per minute.

By the way, Bryan, where's the smart ass commentary?

[Squealagig]

Yeah at rest a fit persons heart rate is usually lower as it's more efficient than an unfit persons heart but I beleive that when working it beats faster than an unfit heart therfore it is able to replenish the glucose and oxygen to the muscles faster and remove all those nasty byproducs, but the unfit heart is too weak, and ineficient so it can't provide enough oxygen and glucose and can't dispose of the bi products so you get tiered and perform worse.

And slugs are cool BTW much better than a bean bag chair anyway (and usually too unfit to protest when you sit on them ).

I hope that makes sense cus it sure as hell doesn't make sense to me now that I read it. (plz correct me on my spelling of sense)

[Squealagig]

Now I've read the link I see now that the study was more about the psycological side of things but I still think that my point is valid with the better goalies being fitter and having faster heart rates. But it could be other stuff so now I'm just confused.

[Aaron]

Hey I'm not a fat slug, I just "cover a lot of net"

[This message has been edited by Aaron (edited September 08, 1999).]

Slugs and salt are fun... especially the fat ones!

[Bernie]

Just finished leafing through these papers from my new hero in science- Aynsley Smith, Ph.D.- although it is actually Micheal Rock,M.D. who is the lead investigator in these studies.

The studies are what scientists would generally refer to as "descriptive" and could never be published in a reputable journal. Basically it means the data was simply observed and presented but it doesn't mean anything and above all doesn't give any insight into how we can improve conditions or prevent contraindications. In other words, they noticed the motor oil was probably dirty, but they don't tell you how to do an oil change. The study seemed well designed though, however useless it may be.

Nonetheless, it has some interesting insights. And by the way, Badge, you're guess was on the money- the majority of best performing goalies were indeed 14-18 yrs old. But they were also the more experienced group too.

The study is completely filled with hokey-pokey bogus psychological profiles to determine the "PSOM" (Positive State Of Mind) for the goalies. This consisted of questionairre results and interviews. Some interesting things did arise however- for example, the study shows most people chose to be goalie because it is "Fun/Cool" (seldom do you see "cool" in a science paper unless it refers to temperature!). Ater that comes challenge, and after that "The team needed a goalie and I was it".
The study also ranks the stress of certain situations like attending P.E. class to wrestling to playing a band solo in comparison to goaltending. If you are still with me here- you're about to be angered because I wholeheartedly must disagree with this result and so will you.
Here are the rankings with a comparitive value next to the ranking. The lower the number, the less stressful.

P.E. Class-14.5
Football QB- 16
Hockey goalie- 16.2
Baseball Pitcher- 16.5
Take a test- 16.6
Swimmer- 17
Basketball @ freethrow- 17.5
Playing in Band- 18.0
Gymnastics- 18.3
Wrestler- 19
Band Solo- 21.2

I pretty much ignored the psycho babble, but the physio part had interesting and controversial points.

Goalies had lower heart rates skating around the rink than when they were in net.
Goalies who had lower stress scores on the "PSOM" interviews had better performance in net.
Goalies who tested better in ability to "share their feelings" performed better in net. (?!)
Higher stress=lower performance

And of course, the goalies who shut-out the puck shooting machine had an average of 10 heart beats per minute faster than those who stopped under 70% of shots.

Personally, I think I rank just about opposite in everything, especially the part about performing worse when feeling more stressed! I know I'm better in higher stress situations than in regular games. And I'm horrible in practices because there's no pressure or stress!

And the stress ranking for goaltenders being so low on that list is bullsh%t!

Oh, BTW- the other paper about injuries in hockey players just observed that most injuries are bruises, sprains and fractures usually to upper body. More than half of these occur after a collision with other players. The puck caused the least injuries.
Big deal.

Bernie

Wonder what the stress rating would be for the overtime penalty shot during the playoffs?

Interesting that all of the "more stressful" activities are solo events, except for the pitcher, but that's only 'cause he's worried about beaning the guy and having him charge the mound with bat in hand or a come-backer of the melon. Bet goalie was a lot more stressful when you didn't have a mask...

At least they didn't include figure skating the survey, that would have been REALLY embarrassing

[TartanBill]

Hmm, If worry about personal attack a primary source of stress, then I would love to have the valium concesson on NBA camera-men and head coaches.

I think it's important to note that there's a difference between a high-stress situation and actually FEELING stressed. I've been in lots of high stress situations in a game, but it was when I was CALM that I did my best. I have seriously become a more sedate person since I started playing goalie, and I think that playing goalie really does teach people to be calm and patient. I've been in a shootout in a championship game and I was cool as a cadaver...and we, nay, **I** ended up winning.

As for the 14-18 year olds stopping more shots, my main point was that the 14-18 year olds are bigger, and have way more experience than the 10-14 year olds and it would be reasonable to expect the bigger, more experienced goalies to stop more shots. So, then, you have to compare regular non-goalie-playing 10-13 year olds and 14-18 year olds in terms of heart rate and whatnot.

And to conclude my dissertation, nerds (i.e. kids in band) don't handle pressure well...