Adopting the "Hybrid" style

[Kahnighit]

Not to rain on the conversation but isn't Zay putting the cart in front of the horse here? I mean he's still working on figuring out his stance or keeping his stick on the ice. Not picking on you Zay, just pointing out what's allready been discussed.

Lemme use music as a metaphor. I took private violin lessons for 11 years (ages 6-17). First thing you learned was how to contort your body into the "correct" position; how to hold the violin, how to hold the bow. Fiddlers make me cringe now. Then you were taught how to move the bow and where to put your fingers. What the notes were, how to read music, keys, scales, vibratto, ear training, etc. I was certainly no prodigy but in 11 years of training not once did I ever hear mentioned by my teachers/conductors or through word of mouth of other's teachers/conductors that anyone was once talked to about their particular style. Part of it is that in the classical music world there's no room for individual style unless you're a soloist and they're the tinyest fraction of those who play. If you can be picked out of 20 other people playing the exact same thing you're probably doing something wrong. I picked up the guitar at 14 and alot of the same applied. You develop a style once you master the technique. Unless you're Tom Morello in which case you just make noise and call that style.

Bringing it back to being between the pipes... I'm a relative noob at this, myself. As I'm in my 30s my opportunities to practice are limited to stick time, pick-up and actuall games. As such my development has been slow but that's allowed me to really identify the "epiphanies" in my game.

For example: down pushes. I practiced them almost since day one. Took quite a few months to figure out the mechanics of it and become able to do it when I concentrated on it. It took almost a whole year after that point before it happend instinctually in a game setting. I didn't even realize I did it untill the puck was going into the other end and when I did I had a big smile on my face.

To see me play I guess you'd call me a butterfly goalie as it is my primary save technique. That's not a result of me wanting to be a butterfly style goalie. It's a result of the fact that my butterfly drop is probably my most polished save selection.

In other words and just my opinion but I don't really see how development can come in any other order unless you're a prodigy but I'd think it would be the same for them as well; first you learn the techinques (fill the tool box), then you train the body (muscle memory), then you visuallize the action/reaction away from the ice (not talked about enough) and finally it happens on it's own without thought in a game setting.

I doubt if Brodeur flips through his mental playbook trying to decide what save selection he's going to use when a shooter's winding up. It's more likely that he's just got more tricks in his bag than most others. Maybe he thought about a handfull of ones he wanted to use that night on his way to the rink but my guess is it's all instinct when he's out there. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So in summation. Zay, I think you ought to worry about the fundimentals. Style will take care of itself. A guy who I play with regularly (former Junior A) complimented me recently by saying I've become very quiet in the net. Me being a noob I didn't understand the compliment and I haven't really seen it used here so I asked what it ment and he said, "patient and efficient but more emphasis on the patient. You're not committing till the shooter does." So if there's a style I'm striving for it's quiet. Don't get me wrong the flaws in my game are staggering to behold and as a result it's going to be years before I'm going to care about polishing my style. I gotta work on polishing my skating, glove saves, blocker saves, puck tracking, blah, blah, blah, first.

Sorry to be so long winded.

[Goalieworld20]

dude... Tom Morello is awesome haha

[Zay1993]

Thanks for the comments everyone! I try to stay up as long as possible and react to the shot instead of dropping and hoping it'll hit me. I do play a heavy butterfly style and I get A LOT of practice every time I go out on the ice.(Almost 100 shots in my last game which ended up 10-2 loss) IMO my skating has improved quite a bit since the last video I posted.(I'll have some new video up late tomorrow) My stick control has also gotten a lot better IMO. I no longer move my upper body a lot like I did in one of my older videos.

I have to be honest, positioning has always been my weak point but I'm getting better each time I step on the ice. Right now I'm mainly focusing on my rebound control. I can make the first save every time but I'm getting burned on the rebounds. Of course my defense doesn't help me AT ALL I'm not blaming my defense because I should be the one controlling my rebounds and by now I should be smart enough to know I can't expect help from my team anymore. (We're now 4-27-2)

I've got a fix on my stance now and my stick control is much improved like I said IMO. Thanks for the long post, seriously I found it very informative and helpful. I just really don't want to be another butterfly "drone" goalie who bores the crap out of everyone by doing the same thing over and over and over and over......

I do play my own style which is a combination of the butterfly and hybrid style. (Once again IMO) I guess kind of a more modern Dominick Hasek. The butterfly is an excellent save choice for me as I've worked on it since I started and I tend to learn very quick. I can either use a Lundqvist butterfly (very wide) or I sometimes use the Giggy-fly for when player's go 5-hole. I find the knee stacks and knee pads deaden the rebounds MUCH,MUCH better than the thighrises.

Sorry for the huge post. Thank you all, keep the information coming!

[Chicken_Tenda]

Sometimes butterflying is akin to brainwashing.

One time I was skating with these college level blokes and I decided unto myself that no matter what the next shot was, I would be down in the butterfly to stop it. So that's what I did. It was a beautiful butterfly stance I dropped down into, as if it was framed right out of the pages of a Patricia Grasso romance novel...pads flared out and perfectly flat on the ice...blocker poised for passion...glove raised and gently lilting in the steep rinktime air...Such goaltending perfection.

Unfortunately, that "next" shot I spoke of happened to be a slap shot, dead center, and about 3 feet off the ice. Hit me right below the chin of my Olie mask and hurt like a mother's mother. I shrugged it off, cuz it's hockey, but when I got home I crawled into bed and curled up into the fetal position like a man sized goalie baby.

Lesson learned.

[RichMan]

^^^somebody likes to read

[#20]

I can't read 3 pages of a book that is mandatory in English, so I won't read all 3 here. I do play hybrid but I bfly a lot because the modern game relies on it. I still take shots standing up or 1 knee up/down. I get nothing but joy watching Nabby and even Marty (as overrated as I think he is) play because of their unorthodox styles (sans Thomas because one day i love him the next it hurts to watch as a bruins fan!). I wish I could have success doing what they do, but you HAVE to Develop your own game, not want to be a hybrid so try playing like one. If you find a stack works best on a 2 on 1 DO IT! It's all personal comfort and ability. I love stacking the pads but I only do so sparsely because I'm not comfortable and the way I have been trained, a bfly slide is more practical. Do I like bfly slides, No. Do I like stacks, yes. It's all a matter of what you can do and how well you can do it.

Oh and from what I've seen of your vids you REALLY need to get lower. You look like you're standing straight up! Just put some more knee bend in (not too much!) and keep your back straight.

[Goalieworld20]

the most important thing is stopping the puck. not everyone can be brodeur, hasek, or thomas. in fact, no one really can.

just because it looks good doesnt mean its the best way. usually that means you messed up somewhere or are using more time and energy than nessecary to make a save. the best save is one that is made to look easy. it is done quickly and efficiently. There is no time or enery wasted making the save.

Carey Price has shown that butterfly couple with quick hands is a save technique that can be used on almost any shot. Now quick hands being a key as we all saw what happened when his glove faltered.

But in reality, the best way to make saves is not the prettiest and most exciting. It is the boringest and most methodical. Middle of the net and depth are the most important thing. Strong positioning and quick knees and hands will take you farther than acrobatic saves follow by rebounds and such.

[maximum31]

Ok heres the thing, every goalie in the NHL plays a different style and some are standup and some are butterfly and everyone is somewhere in between but heres what they all have in common.
1. they ALL have a functional butterfly obviously a guy like nabby or brodeur use it less than a giguere or a a price but all of them butterfly in certain situations and against shots low and in between their shoulders from a decent angle.
2. Most hybrid goalies still begin with the butterfly for first shots, a common rule of goaltending is to react inside out, first you make sure the puck doesnt go through you then you react from there, if you watch a guy like turco play all the saves start as a butterfly but because of his tremendous athleticism they may end in an explosive arm extension.
3. They all still have very good fundamentals and positioning, their mechanics are all solid, within that you see a range of styles, for this reason the way to go is to develop skating ability and a solid positional game and allow your personal athletic ability to dictate how much you react. The point of arm extensions is to control the rebound better if you are reaching to get to pucks it means that your out of positioning or your hands are too far back.

[Goalieworld20]

i agree completely maximum. good points indeed

i kinda got off topic in my post. the point i was trying to convay to the thread starter was that the more boring a goalie seems, the better job he is probably doing. Giguere is very unspectacular to watch, but keeps the shots he should stop out. Now his skill at getting those ones he shouldnt is slowly wasting away. Hes lost the athleticism he showed in 03 when i thought he was at his best for sure. Luckily Hiller is just coming into that, hes got Giggy's superb positioning and at the moment better reflexes. With more experience, a goaltedning change in anaheim will likely occur in the next year or two. (season tickets haha, watch these two all the time)

oops off topic again haha, but i said my point

[St0PtH3pUcK]

Well a goalie reacts depending on their natural ability/reaction. if wanting to stand up on shots then that goalie must understand the situation that the play or just shooter is in. You have to read the shot, you have to react, not just go down. Reading the shot, literally, focusing on reading the shot off the stick then react, instead of just going to down when you see the shooter into shooting position. Though when the shooter is close enough, then yes going down a little earlier is acceptable since the reaction time is so petite

[dfunked]

Zay,

I've noticed one thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether or nor you play "outside-in" or "inside-out". I understand your situation pretty well, I grew up in the 80s and early 90s when the butterfly was becoming popular, but most of my goalie coaches taught stand up. The old stand up adage was to skate way out past the crease as the play was coming down the ice, try to take up all the net with your angle, and challenge the shooter. This is the "outside" part, getting far out of the net to challenge the play, then retreating back "in" to the crease as the play comes in the zone. That was the way I learned to play.

But the game has changed a lot since then, and I've adapted a hybrid style to incorporate more of the butterfly. One thing I had to do was to start playing "inside-out", waiting to make your angles until the play gets in your zone and staying deeper (for me typically at the top of the crease). With the speed of today's game if you play "outside-in" you get burned if you play too far out, plus your not in the right position to use the butterfly properly because you can't move laterally very well if your skating backwards towards the net.

If you want to adapt to the hybrid style from the stand up style, my advice is to start skating out to make your angle as the play comes in your zone somewhere around your blue line, try not to be more than 1-2 feet outside of the crease at any given time, and try not to move forwards or backwards very much so you have good lateral movement. Adapting to the inside-out strategy let me use more butterfly and has helped my game a lot. Hope this helps!

[Dryden Fan]

I started playing net "custodian of the twine" in the late 60's. I tried to copy Dryden and Esposito. Tony had a vacuum cleaner down low butterfly and Kenny D was really athletic and quick with his feet, my coaches constantly told me to stand up straight and challenge shooter. As years went by the Hybrid developed. I think Brodeur is probably the best example. I believe goalie stick paddle length has a direct bearing on the ease of playing. Kenny D. used a 24" paddle, bent from his back and got a lot of speed from the straight leg "croutch" Tony was not as fast. But got down low real quick due to the wide open stance. I think if you look at todays goalies the focus on strictly butterfly has taken away some speed of the standup. I play "Hybrid" myself and got the best of both worlds. Pads not to tight or not too loose will make the difference, a real "Hybrid" won't focus on "pro fly" look, but more on comfort and speed.

[influenza]

Originally Posted by Zay1993

Both goalies are fun to watch because they don't just get in position and butterfly for every shot. (Not that I have anything against goalies that do this but it is boring to watch)

I hate to be cynical, but you live in the Yukon, no one is watching you. So just focus on making saves, and not how your style looks. Get a goalie coach and learn, and forget what you "look" like. Thats asinine.

[Goalieworld20]

Originally Posted by influenza

I hate to be cynical, but you live in the Yukon, no one is watching you. So just focus on making saves, and not how your style looks. Get a goalie coach and learn, and forget what you "look" like. Thats asinine.

exactly my point

[ariesgroove]

stop at nothing to stop everything...