Mindset to cutting down the angle

[millsrj]

My son and I read these posts alot, so thanks in advance for your input.

He is 14 yrs old, and is having two problems that seem related.

1. on fast breaks, he challenges, but retreats deep into his crease quickly.

2. on point shots, or long shots, where it is obvious that the player is going to shoot, he is hesitant to come out past the top of his crease.

He is big (5-10) and we try to convince him that it is to his advantage to make as many saves as possible a foot or so outside the blue ice, but he just isn't doing it.

What are some of the successful methods some of you have used, or seen used, in order to overcome this. We (the coaching staff) talk to him about confidence, visualization, closing the gap... I think this will be a big issue for him at the next level (and at the upcoming tryouts)

[ORO]

Maybe instead of just telling him about it and hoping he gets the picture, you could actually "show" him the picture (assuming you haven't). If I remember correctly, there was a thread somewhere on here that showed a series of pictures taken from the puck's point of view. One pic had the goalie on his line, the next pic had him on top of the crease. The difference in coverage is very, very easy to see. A quick search should find the thread (it may have been one of the ALLSTAR threads?)

The other part of the equation is comfort. If he's not getting comfortable playing angles in practice, he's certainly not going to be comfortable doing it in games.

This is all coming from somebody that has no formal training, so I'm sure somebody else could give you some better specifics.

Cheers.

[Edwardgoalie31]

I know something that would make him realize the difference in challenging on those point shots. Ask another goalie during practice to stand behind him and tell players to take some shots from the point. Because the other goalie will be behind him be wont be able to back up in the net. Then he will realize that when he challenges the right way on point shots saves are much easier.

[connors83]

Video. Film him in practice getting lit up while standing on the goal line. That's what cured me.

[Kahnighit]

I think a lot of that has to do with where and how he's comfortable. Finding out why he's comfortable there is the trick. Perhaps he feels most comfortable back on the goal line cause that gives him the most ammount of time to react.

With the breakaways you could have him practice matching the speed of the shooter. Start at the goal line, give him a rough idea of where to stop and start his retreat and try to have him implement good Y theory. Have the shooter(s) use varying speeds. An actual shot could be optional at first. Getting the speed matching down is just a matter of repetition.

Hanging on the goal line for point shots could be a number of things. It seems like Lundy and Kipper both struggled with this at some point during the year due to not trusting their D to handle the pass. Then again it could also be that he doesn't trust that he's on angle. Or maybe it's that he's not confident in his lateral movement. Crease movement drills that incorporate skating to spots outside the crease could help. Also you could have a shooter skating board to board at the top of the circles while the goalie tracks him from above the crease while the coach gives feedback as to whether he's off his angle (i've heard of ropes tied to the posts with the goalie between them used to show optimal angle coverage).

Ultimately he's going to have to believe that speed matching and challenging are beneficial to his game. Telling him is one thing showing him is another. On ice video, as mentioned before is a good tool.

[millsrj]

Thank you all, great stuff.

His lateral movement and his skating ability are both very good, I don't know how confident he is in them though. I will try more video tape. I have tried placing pilons in his crease so he can feel where he is, but I don't think it's spacial thing, I think he just isn't comprehending the "I gotta close the gap-NOW" thing.

Video is probably the best answer.

If you have more, please don't hesitate.

[The Wall33]

Originally Posted by millsrj

My son and I read these posts alot, so thanks in advance for your input.

He is 14 yrs old, and is having two problems that seem related.

1. on fast breaks, he challenges, but retreats deep into his crease quickly.

2. on point shots, or long shots, where it is obvious that the player is going to shoot, he is hesitant to come out past the top of his crease.

He is big (5-10) and we try to convince him that it is to his advantage to make as many saves as possible a foot or so outside the blue ice, but he just isn't doing it.

What are some of the successful methods some of you have used, or seen used, in order to overcome this. We (the coaching staff) talk to him about confidence, visualization, closing the gap... I think this will be a big issue for him at the next level (and at the upcoming tryouts)

I would like to speak to the 3 points in bold and italics.

Fourteen years old and 5'10" tall is a decent size (same height as me). Playing a top of the crease depth game (as a 'standard' depth) is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it helps him play square and on angle.

I agree with the basic premise of challenging a foot or so off the blue ice on clear long shots - play big during those shots as a rule. Having said that, perhaps he was burned on an errant rebound and a guy scored back door? That would explain his hesitancy.

How are his long recoveries back to the posts? If he is slow recovering from that extra depth he might not feel he is able to take the extra depth on those shots? Not having seen him play it is a tough call.

As for retreating in to deep on breakaways, that sounds like a timing and lateral movement issue. He needs to use every practice opportunity to develop his reading skills and fake resistance to ensure he has the confidence to pivot near the top of the crease.

From what I am (trying) to read in between the lines, it appears to me that he might need some extra goalie specific, crease based skating patterns to bolster his confidence. Proper recovery sequence drills with long powerful pushes would help. Lateral slide drills would be useful.

Depth is a difficult thing to judge. I'm a huge fan of maintaining a simple approach when setting up for an impending shot: take an initial depth that will most closely resemble the final depth (ie. minimize in & out depth adjustments and use small lateral adjustments only), make small finite angle adjustments and then use a patient approach and technique that controls rebounds.

Personally, this works best for me when I start my depth near the top of the crease as the puck is skated over the red line. If I read the only option is a shot from the sideboards I can take a quick 12" of extra ice and play big. If I read a possible lateral pass or backdoor play I can give up 12" of ice and make a quick angle adjustment.

It is all situational and is further influenced by the team defence (or lack thereof) and the quality of shooters you are facing. Too much depth can be as big a problem as too little.

You are correct in your assessment of shooters getting better this year. As a goalie coach of a 1993 AAA team last year, I personally observed how much faster and stronger the kids were by the end of the year. Gym work, weights and skill work led to much higher velocity shots with much more accuracy (aspecially top shelf). As a goalie, if you do not understand the vertical/horizontal angle relationship and the affect of depth you will not last long, IMO.

Wellsie

[RichMan]

Take away his Xbox...watch him catch on fast

He's young, and pretty big for his age so he must be working hard to adapt to his body. At a young age, repetition is key. You know how it is as a parent...you gotta tell them a hundred times before they finally listen

[foodsample]

I'm about 5'11, at 16 years old. The main goalie on my junior team is 5'10, and he was teaching me about just that. On any long range shots he comes out about a foot above the crease, which takes away any net for the shooter to shoot at. I too used to play deep in my crease, and occasionally come to the top of the crease, but I would get burned topshelf constantly. I find that when I first started playing farther out my main concern was my ability to react to shots that felt much close to me. Coming out I find usually discourages any sniper shot, and forces them to come in close (unless there are people there to tip in, which your defence SHOULD be dealing with ).

With break aways/shoot outs, I come out about a foot from my crease. (this is where it comes into play when people say butterfly takes discipline) You have to remain calm and disciplined, and stay your ground while adjusting laterally to the shooter. This technique should usually discourage any snipers. Once the shooter runs out of ice and coming in you deke you out, well ... thats another problem

I think what your son is worried about is getting caught backdoor, by a tip-in or pass. I had the same concern, but your defence should see that your farther out and take care of anyone looking for a tip-in (if they dont, then talk to them). Then take some shots while hes that far out so he can understand how much easier it is to block from there. I have always had problems with shuffling, and sliding back to my post, so one time I spent the whole practice just sliding to my post from the top of the crease, and shuffling. After 2 hours of practicing shuffling, and sliding to my post ... I had no problem with either the next day in a pick-up game.

[TBLfan]

Show him.

I coach adult beginners. Luckily, my goalies have pretty much known what to do from watching goalies at higher levels but of course fine-tuning is needed to get them out of the beginning league. Angle is tough to teach because most people naturally want to sit deep in the crease and square up to the body. One thing I did recently at a practice was making the goalie get down in the butterfly in the crease. With the puck in the slot area. Using my stick I illustrated the angle that the puck was seeing, which obviously showed how much net was open.

Now leaving the puck in the same area, I had him move out to the top of the crease and again showed him the angle... Of course there is less net showing. He got it pretty quickly. While the rest of the team was doing skating drills I worked with him and made him come out to challenge me as I shot pucks on him. Of course, for confidence sake a lot of my shots were at his chest, glove or blocker. His first season in net and he was clearly better than half the goalies in the league. He attributes it to me working with him, I attribute it to his hard work and above the level skating ability. Sadly, his wife dropped the hammer and cut his nights available to play, which he chose against goaltending at a low level for playing forward at a higher level.