AAA goalie coach - what should be parents expectations?

[Youthinstructor]

Our association to it's credit, puts on a weekly clinic for all of it's AAA/AA goalies through most of the season. They get drills and group instruction. But we are one of the few AAA teams in our association that doesn't also have a staff goalie coach to work with the goalies in team practices and observe them in games.

This void was mentioned to the head coach in his feedback last year. In response this year, he has mentioned the hiring of a "team goalie consultant" for our M-Bantam AAA team. I was excited by the idea until I found out the following:

- This person will come in every other week to one of the team practices and work with the goalies.
- He will not be coming to any games.
- He will not be a part of the coaching staff and not be an advocate for the goalies.
- The team will not pick up the expense and the two sets of goalie parents will pay the whole cost.

I have some issues with that.

First off, the association already does goalie specific drills. What I feel is missing is the real time feedback and "coaching" a staff member, even if it's only part time, brings while observing games. Also, I feel that proper goalie instruction is beneficial to the whole team and as such, the team funds should at least partially pay for this guy.

I'm inclined to say no to this request. What is everyone's experience out there in terms of what to expect from a AAA program?

[oldgoalie]

I would agree with you. If I as a parent were asked to directly fund training for my son, I would want some if not all input as to what that training would be, and in fact have been in this position in the past.

It is becoming more difficult and costly to squeeze everything we feel we need to as coaches into the 1 or 2 practice sessions per week, and having to dedicate a regular portion of the ice or bring an unknown entity into the area of coaching is not always easily accepted or accomodated by many teams. The thought remains that the goalies constitute 12% of the roster and the majority needs to be addressed first.

1/ It is great that there are regular sessions for the elite goalies, this is not common with a lot of associations. IS the concern of not having dedicated goalie instructors because every other team does? DO those teams have access to regular drill sessions? If not, things are almost equal.

2/ IS there a need to have a full time Goalie mentor attached to the team? This is still minor hockey. IF the resources are there for someone to continue to develop and learn, is the need perceived simply because 'it's the current rage and everyone else has one".


3/ Are you better off to continue to take the sessions provided and then seek a local instructor or school for one on one or regular group sessions? (IF you are in TO, there are plenty of good ones to be found; at least a few are reading this post


4/ Sounds like the head coach may not be sure of what to do with the goalies in practice, has been pushed to offer something and this is his response on 'his terms'. Perhaps it is simply a case of better communication required.

I continue to be amazed at the number of teams who will easily spend thousands of $ a season on power skating instruction, but not a dime on the goalies. I have been in this situation, where I was promised to be reimbursed for private lessons and after laying out the $$ for both my own son and the other goalie, told there is nothing left in the budget!

I was fortunate in the past with my son, in that I was always on the bench in some capacity and was able to work with him during practices regularly. I was also able to work with the coaching staff to integrate things into practice for the benefit of the goalies, with minimal disruption to the general practice plans.

In addition, i would take him to a private contractor once a month or when a bad habit came up, along with his partner. We ran heavy power skating practices twice a month and the deal was the goalies attended one, and went to goalie school in lieu of the next. This worked well for my guys, may not be for all.

I am certain there are a lot of parents who are not involved or maybe not familiar with the position, who don't always get the best training or advice on training. But I think in the case you have laid out, they need to at least be presented with or consider some other options, if they are footing the bill. One thing I have always advocated is that I believe at a younger age it is more important for the goalie to have a good rapport with his instructor than to attend what may be considered by some to be the 'best' school or instructor. If they are just showing up and not truly listening, you are wasting your time and money. I have watched some instructors run incredible sessions with Junior level goalies and then totally loose the attention of the 10 year olds that were next on the ice.

Last, I am coaching M Bantam A's myself this year. Both myself and one assistant have goaltending backgrounds, so both goalies will get regualar attention during practice. They both do a little private training, both are playing 3 on 3 for the summer and other sports as well. While they both need some development, I am not sure they need a weekly goalie instructor, and full time instruction and drills. As a new team, I prefer to focus on integrating them with the rest of the team right now and will address their specific needs as needed. I think in both cases, a weekly session would be overload for them, we all need a bit of down time or life outside the rink. (Not really sure if their is life there, but would be nice to have the time to explore it!)

Last suggestion is there may be a willing and able candidate in the association that could function as the association's ad hoc goalie mentor at large, watching the drills sessions, individual team practices and games and providing some feedback to the coaches and the goalies. I have done this informally with my association in the past and spent as much time with the coaches as i did the goalies. In most cases I was able to provide some insight on the position and integration into practices that they had not considered and each team saw some benefits as a result.

What are you doing with your spare time this season?

[Youthinstructor]

It's hard to put into words exactly why this scenario leaves me a bit cold. I guess I am just not used to what is the "norm".

Every other AAA team in our centre (that I am aware of) has a permanent staff member working with the goalies. Often this is luck (coach knows someone is is willing to do it) and other times the cost is built in to supplement. Last year was the first year my second son didn't have that luxury.

The group training sessions each week for the first half or more of the season are great. But I find that when you don't have a trained pair of eyes to occasionally watch over the kids in action during games...and don't have direct knowledge of what their tendancies are, you miss a great deal of opportunity to take corrective action.

What I would prefer is to hire someone who will take a bit more personal interest in the team and the two goalies. A bit more of a mentor. I just don't want another layer of drills.

[NathansDad]

A few years ago at a team parents meeting, we suggested that the Bantam AAA team for which Nate was playing hire a goalie coach. The response was that they'd do it if the goalie parents picked up the tab. I asked why the goalie parents weren't exempt from paying their share for the coaches who mentored the skaters during practices, where the goalies were hardly more than targets. Nobody seemed to think this was a reasonable question.

[oldgoalie]

Sorry, I did not pick up on the fact you were one of the parents in your original post.

I don't know if it is the norm, particularly at AAA, most of my exposure is A and AA, where it is a mixed bag of sorts. I do know most of the AAA goalies I have fit over the years get some training costs put up or reimbursed, but this would not be enough of a sampling to say it is the norm.

Given the typically competitive level at AAA, I would think most teams would address the need for some extra attention for the goalies, but I am sure there are those that treat them as targets during practice. This was the norm with NHL teams for many years and has obviously changed. It is bit surprising that minor hockey teams which have embraced practices such as extra ice, power skating, dryland, plyometrics and core training in recent years are still a bit slow on the goalie training.

I would again suggest some discussion with the coaching staff re finding a solution more to your liking. You obviously play as well, and I am certain have some insight into the position. Perhaps try the coaches way as a trial and see how it works out, but as noted, I would want at least some dialogue with whoever they are bringing in. IF it were my son and the training was paid for and I was unhappy with the type and or quality of instruction I would discuss it with the coach and perhaps look to to a private contractor on my own time and nickel.

I attended a coaching clinic this weekend; of 34 of us, only 2 were goalies and most by their own admission don't know much about the position apart from the fact that when everything else fails, we should stop the puck I was able to share some of my own opinions and insights with the group and i think was generally well received. We all have a part of the bigger game, I certainly don't aspire to teach skating beyond the basic stance and stride


Hope it gets sorted out and your son has a good season. As a parent I've spent both good and bad seasons with (mostly) very good coaches but a couple of years have seemed very long indeed.

[Youthinstructor]

I help out with the younger kids all the time. But I'm not qualified to be instructing bantam aged AAA kids in this lifetime or the next. Besides, I would never want to coach my own son. Great kid but...not what he needs.

I drop him off...grab my coffee....go up to the cheap seats...sneak a refreshment from one the parents metal flasks...and keep my mouth shut!

BTW...if it is misleading...my forum nickname has nothing to do with hockey.

[goalies-r-us]

Most of the AAA organizations I've heard of around here (Michigan) include goalie instruction as part of the "total package". Either the organization picks up the cost as part of their sponsorship, or the team's budget (which is divided equally among the team's members) has a goalie instruction line item included.

IMO, as a goalie parent, if I'm going to be required to spend extra for a goalie coach, then I would be the one to decide WHO that person would be, HOW OFTEN they would be coming, and WHAT they would be doing (practices, game evaluations, etc).

I totally agree that if the goalies' families will have to bear this cost, they should be "refunded" the cost for the rest of the coaching staff, power skating instructors, shooting instructors, or any other consultants that are brought in. Using their line of thinking, if the head coach isn't coaching my kid, why should I have to pay for him???

The problem is people who think "team" when it's convenient, and "individual" when it's convenient. The TEAM needs powerskating instruction for the good of the team. Individual skaters will need the powerskating instruction more than others... does that mean that you only charge a "powerskating fee" to the worst individual skaters on the team? Same with shooting or stickhandling lessons.... the entire TEAM benefits from that, although some will get more out of it than others. Same with the coach teaching "systems" or "checking" or anything else to the skaters.... they are teaching these things for the benefit of the TEAM, and while some individuals will need it more or learn more from it than others, the whole team benefits. Goalie coaching is no different -- when the goalie improves, the team as a whole improves.

[Youthinstructor]

I agree...I would be more than happy to help fund extra training for our 6 defensemen. Nothing would help our goaltenders more!

[Goalieworld20]

Originally Posted by NathansDad

A few years ago at a team parents meeting, we suggested that the Bantam AAA team for which Nate was playing hire a goalie coach. The response was that they'd do it if the goalie parents picked up the tab. I asked why the goalie parents weren't exempt from paying their share for the coaches who mentored the skaters during practices, where the goalies were hardly more than targets. Nobody seemed to think this was a reasonable question.

thats a completely reasonable arguement haha. im not a parent im one of the kids on teams and we're taught nothing by our team coachs (head, assistant etc) its not really their fault for not teaching us (it is for using us as targets but thats a diff story) That is completely reasonable. if the goalies' parents pay for the players teachers, then why dont the players' parents od the same for the goalies' teachers?

[Damion]

You are lucky enough to be part of an association that pays for goalie training?

You are ahead of the game already

Also be less concerned with if or who is out there coaching and more concerned with the quality of the instruction. A good goalie coach once a week is far beter than a bad one every ice time.

Watching games in person is a little over rated you could allways video the games. At the bantam and midget level a goalie will often be able to watch video of themselves and know what they did wrong and what they should have done instead, or have a private instructor of your choice go over them with your son. If you wanna be a real nice guy edit the film so that everything where he dosn't have to be in his stance is omited.

Really your sons development rest's mostly on his shoulders, but if you have the resources to help him out from a financial standpoint it will go a long way.

At the bantam midget age you will only be involved with your association for a few more years so rather than expending energy trying to re invent the wheel expend it seeking quality private instruction and camps.

A part of any good outside instruction will be teaching the goalie how to make the most of practices where you he is basicly a target.

[Steve L]

Originally Posted by Goalieworld20

thats a completely reasonable arguement haha. im not a parent im one of the kids on teams and we're taught nothing by our team coachs (head, assistant etc) its not really their fault for not teaching us (it is for using us as targets but thats a diff story) That is completely reasonable. if the goalies' parents pay for the players teachers, then why dont the players' parents od the same for the goalies' teachers?

Old argument, comes up every year. We handle that in part by giving the goalies a discount, that is then hopefully used towards private lessons.

We had a goalie coach in our club a few yers ago. Paid hm a lot of money (the club picked up the tab) and idon't think it worked too well. At practice, the goalies need to be in the net for the drills, not taking a leson. The goalie cocach spent most the each hour standing around watching. Everyone was surprised when I voted against beinging him back at our budget meeting after that season.

Also, having a "club goalie coach" isn't always such a geat idea. My son skated a camp with a AAA organization last summer that had a supposedly good goalie coach. All the goalies from that club were quite good, but all played exactly the same way, and all had identical issues with rebound control. My son played a more controlled, positional type game, and was about 99% as good as the best out there, but controlled rebounds much better. But since he was six inches shorter than all the others, and didn't look as spectacular in stopping the puck, he was not viewed as well as the local boys.

Goalie instruction is best handled separate from team practices, especially if your practices are only one hour or so.

[cheech's dad]

Our organization provides a goalie coach 1 to 2x per month (out of 8-10 practices) as part of the tuition. Watching my son being nothing more than a piece of wood in the old days and in our previous organization, we've opted to pay the cost of a goalie coach coming to work with him (and the other goalie) at least 1x a week.
The coach whom the organization provided utilizes the same style and technique my son has been taught so there are little conflicts between his wants and my son's earlier/other trainings.

[Goalieworld20]

Originally Posted by Steve L

Old argument, comes up every year. We handle that in part by giving the goalies a discount, that is then hopefully used towards private lessons.

We had a goalie coach in our club a few yers ago. Paid hm a lot of money (the club picked up the tab) and idon't think it worked too well. At practice, the goalies need to be in the net for the drills, not taking a leson. The goalie cocach spent most the each hour standing around watching. Everyone was surprised when I voted against beinging him back at our budget meeting after that season.

Also, having a "club goalie coach" isn't always such a geat idea. My son skated a camp with a AAA organization last summer that had a supposedly good goalie coach. All the goalies from that club were quite good, but all played exactly the same way, and all had identical issues with rebound control. My son played a more controlled, positional type game, and was about 99% as good as the best out there, but controlled rebounds much better. But since he was six inches shorter than all the others, and didn't look as spectacular in stopping the puck, he was not viewed as well as the local boys.

Goalie instruction is best handled separate from team practices, especially if your practices are only one hour or so.

o well we dont get discounts around here. and if goalie trainging is best done not at practice then isnt it the same for player training?

[The Wall33]

For those who do not know me, I am a full time goalie coach in Toronto with 90% of my business coming from GTHL teams at the AAA and AA level. My primary focus is to deliver quality training to teams, most typically during weekly practice sessions.

I am finding there are two types of organizations: those who care about goalie training and those who do not. Surprisingly enough, some of the 'marquis' organizations are the weakest supporters of dedicated goalie training. Their idea of goalie specific training is to ship the goalies off to a weekly training session (apart from the team practice) eleswhere, necessitating yet another commitment from parents (and kids) who are already over burdened. Talk about sloughing off responsibility.

Having been around this merry go wheel for more than a dozen years I have learned there are those teams that talk the talk and then there are those who walk the walk. Cliche, but true.

Fortunately I have found three organizations that have embraced the program I am offering and this has been a solid recruiting tool for them. When firm commitments are made and actually acted upon it pays dividends.

To speak to the first post by Youthinstructor: you are paying incredibly good money to be involved in any AAA program and as such that entitles you to a strong voice in the training process. You need to be respectful but forceful in voicing your concerns or else you will get pushed aside.

Let me compare your AAA program to an Atom AA program I am part of. The Atom AA team hired me specifically to scout goalies from multiple teams. They paid for me to run private assessments for the top goalies I scouted. They have committed to weekly training sessions all winter and a training camp in August. They have already paid to have me out half a dozen times in the Spring to get their goalies up to speed for next year.

Last weekend they paid for me to come out and watch and videotape their goalies. I produced DVD's for the goalies and the team for their review. I will conduct goalie specific reviews of the video with a high def projector and video. The goalies will receive a personalized assessment of their play and supporting video. They will have me watching and taping at least 1 game per month during the season. They will have me teaching their kids pre-game routines and mental strategies for success. I met with all 4 parents and have discussed what I see as priorities for summer training.

I am not trying to pump my tires here; this is what they want and I will gladly deliver. And that is a AA team. Why a AAA team cannot get that level of commitment is surely worth questioning.

I have five AAA teams contracted for next season and they too will get the same level of commitment. You have every reason to question what your money is being spent on and every right to demand more. If you don't you are a sucker and will be taken advantage of.

Trust me, the squeaky wheel does get the oil. Do not be shy - demand the best for your child. Do not settle for anything less than the best or that is exactly what you will get.

Just my opinion.

Wellsie

[Steve L]

Originally Posted by Goalieworld20

o well we dont get discounts around here. and if goalie trainging is best done not at practice then isnt it the same for player training?

Who do you play for? You are a 92 in So Cal, I probably know you. My kid is a 93.