New video, Bfly slide - puck view

[Jukka Ropponen]

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Same topic as we have been talking during the last few weeks, but a different angle. When you look at this move from the pucks perspective it shows real well the importance of having your gloves out in front.

Jukka

[NHGoalie]

why does this goalie stop on the wrong foot? he is moving to his left and stopping on his right foot, at least thats what it appears like to me

[goaliematt76]

Originally Posted by NHGoalie

why does this goalie stop on the wrong foot? he is moving to his left and stopping on his right foot, at least thats what it appears like to me

He is doing it correctly. Normally, you want to stop on your outside foot, but when something happens where you already know before you stop that you have to make another move (player passes the puck), you stop on the outside foot of whatever direction you are about to move, even if that is the "wrong" foot. For example, you go from right post to the right side of your crease. Player passes the puck to the left point before you get there. You would stop on the right leg. If you go from right post to the right of your crease and the player passes back to the right corner, you would stop on the left foot. This puts your weight on your new outside foot so that you can make the push across easier. It is just one less move to make. Hope that makes sense.

[NHGoalie]

yeah that makes sence i figured it would something along those lines but i didnt realize the pass was coming so early.

[The Wall33]

Originally Posted by goaliematt76

He is doing it correctly. Normally, you want to stop on your outside foot, but when something happens where you already know before you stop that you have to make another move (player passes the puck), you stop on the outside foot of whatever direction you are about to move, even if that is the "wrong" foot. For example, you go from right post to the right side of your crease. Player passes the puck to the left point before you get there. You would stop on the right leg. If you go from right post to the right of your crease and the player passes back to the right corner, you would stop on the left foot. This puts your weight on your new outside foot so that you can make the push across easier. It is just one less move to make. Hope that makes sense.

There has been a lot of discussion on this point during a previous post. I also contend that the goalie is stopping with the incorrect leg and he is only stopping on the outside (right side) leg b/c he knows the drill sequence and is in essence over anticipating (?cheating?)...

Jukka made a counter point that made some sense and in the end we basically agreed to disagree and that for 99% of the plays we face it is irrelevant which leg you stop on.

Thanks for posting the video Jukka.

Wellsie

[toddpotiphar]

perhaps he 'slid too far' because he already had the puck in his glove and had no need to stop sliding sooner

[Deezer]

There have been many debates about this particular issue, both here and between the goalie coaches I work with. We used to teach our goalies to stop on the inside leg all the time.

A couple of years ago, I started to stop on the outside leg, and debated it with my collegues. We came to the conclusion that it is all a matter of situation.

On angle breakaways, or if there isn't a passing option, I believe the goalie should stop on the inside foot. It is more likely that the shooter tries to go first post (especially on a 1-1 situation), and when stopping on the inside foot, the goalie is already square to the puck and ready to shuffle down to the post.

On plays with 2 or more opponents, I believe the goalie should stop on the outside foot (like a T-push). When stopping on the outside foot, the goalie loads his or her leg with power for a slide or standing movement to follow a cross pass or walk in.

I believe Ari makes the right decision, but he ruins it anyway. If you look carefully, he does two c-cuts backwards, pivots, and then pushes, creating 4 separate movements. This is what we call balance strides, and we work very hard to erase those with our goalies. I believe that goaltending is about making as few moves possible. The correct situation would, according to me, be:

1. T-push out
2. Stop on outside leg (like a T-push)
3. Pivot
4. Push & Slide
Totalt: 4 moves

In opposite to Ari:
1. T-push out
2. Stop on outside leg
3. C-cut
4. C-cut
5. Pivot
6. Push & Slide

Discuss

[Ryeno42]

You stop with the leg opposite of where your going to react to next.

The opposite leg methods only holds true when the player is not moving in down the wing

[dread]

Nice Deezer

One could also call those small C-cuts a momentum build. It depends on the depth gain of the initial T-push.
Conservative depth = stop, pivot, push.
Aggressive depth = stop, momentum build, pivot, push.

[NHGoalie]

i kind of see you outside leg people's point. but i dont agree with it.

in the act of T-pushing you lead with one leg, i dont see why you would wait for your other leg to catch up before you stop. I believe this goalie should simply be T-pushing out, stopping on his left skate, turning to be square to where the shooter is, and coming across (T-push, butterfly slide, whatever way works for him)

drills should be game situation, what if he was stopping on his right skate and the guy passing shot it instead? i doubt he would be ready for the shot and would either make a very awkward save (rebound?) or let in a goal.

[The Wall33]

Originally Posted by NHGoalie

i kind of see you outside leg people's point. but i dont agree with it.

in the act of T-pushing you lead with one leg, i dont see why you would wait for your other leg to catch up before you stop. I believe this goalie should simply be T-pushing out, stopping on his left skate, turning to be square to where the shooter is, and coming across (T-push, butterfly slide, whatever way works for him)

drills should be game situation, what if he was stopping on his right skate and the guy passing shot it instead? i doubt he would be ready for the shot and would either make a very awkward save (rebound?) or let in a goal.

My point exactly.

You need to have a POINT to a drill, preferably something that is game relevant. Goalies must use their imagination when the entire sequence is not completed with shooters.

Clearly the goalie starts on the post because (use your imagination) the puck is behind the goal line. A pass is made nearside which necessitates a depth gain (minimal angle adjustment). In most situations like this the shooter will immediately shoot the puck and will not risk a soft and low percentage pass across the crease. The goalie therefore must play the shooter 100% straight up, no cheating or else he will get beat on the nearside post. The priority must be given to the shooter, anything else is just going through the motions or guessing.

Stopping with the outside leg means the goalie will be undersquare, increasing the chance of a goal shortside or a rebound weakside into the slot area, clearly not what any golaie wants.

Stopping on the inside leg also facilitates a strong pivot-push sequence (seen as c-cuts in the above video). This stepback pivot (an 'Ian Clarkism') allows a very quick lateral slide back into coverage. Stopping on the outside leg necessitates a push without a stepback pivot and requires superior strength and technique. In the video Ari chooses to take the extra sequence and c-cut pivot, making my point.

One last point. I agree with Jukka on the need for forward and active gloves - this is critcal IMO. If this shooter was pumping top shelf shots we would see a different outcome. Instead he shoots relatively weak shots mid-level with little need to move. The stepback pivot allows the body to cover the shooting triangle faster and more effectively due to the enhanced momentum of the body.

My whole point is this: when conducting drills it is incumbent on the goalie and the coach to not 'cheat' or 'anticipate' knowing where the final shot will be initiated. The sequence must be done straight up. Trust me, I know this is easier said than done. It is human nature to want to make the save and to do anything to make it, especially if the camera is running. Combine this with over-excited shooters and it can quickly degenerate into a sequence with limited realism.

Over arching this comment is the fact that this whole debate makes almost no difference during most game sequences and thus is almost a moot point.

Wellsie

[Jukka Ropponen]

I find it funny how religious some folks are with this topic of what leg should be used to stop. What we have done is a very deep analysis based on game situations and effectiveness of various moves. With results from that study we ddi develop our system.

There are a lot of situations where it does not matter at all which leg you use to stop, just go with what ever feels natural. Then there are situations where you really can't afford to have your weight on the inside leg (direction where you most propably have to move) and in those situations you use outside leg to stop.

Ari plays this way as well as Niklas Bäckström who works out with us. These 2 gents use roughly 70% of the time outside leg when stopping and 30% inside and it seems to work real well for them.

Niklas and I are flying to Zurich this afternoon to join ZSC Lions team and go with them tomorrow for a 1 week training camp which will be held at Fussen, Germany. We will play 2 games in there aginst DEL teams and have 2 ice sessions every day. I will try to get some good video footage from either games or practices to show some examples of situations where they use inside and outside leg to stop.

I can also tell from the past experience that if goalie just uses inside leg religiously it will be a huge problem. I had a goalie like this who had been taught that for 4 years playing college hockey at Lowell (Markus Helanen) and he could not change that in any situation, he was 100% inside. We had several games where he played great, but every now and then he was caught in situations where his weight was on a wrong leg and he no chance to move as required. At that time my other goalie was kari Lehtonen and Kari could alternate which leg to use to stop and results were a lot better.

Here's an old video of Lehtonen at Practices.

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Jukka