roller team beats ice team on ice

[dreadlockgoalie]

Originally Posted by btbpitt71

basically you beat them because they couldnt hit you. roller players wouldnt stand a chance against an organized ice team that was allowed contact. roller players are not allowed to hit and therefore can dance all around people, which is exactly the reason all star games have high scores. congrats but dont be too proud until you play full contact.

Most of the best roller players I know and have played against, including a few who were on the Canadian national team this year, played full contact most of their lives. That includes me, I played contact hockey up to the end of high school, before switching to goal. I was still good at both. You can't expect to skate around with your head down in high level roller and accomplish anything anyway.

[cuprajake]

yeah we hit, thats part of hockey. were all adults and take it as part of the game, at some lower kiddie levels its a case of safety first. but we do hit.

[shadow47]

Originally Posted by influenza

I played roller for 10 years.

I played ice for 1.5 years.

I'm NEVER EVER going back to roller hockey again. It's too slow, it's too hot, and no I don't miss all my points I scored in roller.

Got to agree, I started out playing roller hockey and since I got on the ice in the late 90s I've never wanted to go back. My last roller game I actually thought to myself, "This ISN'T FUN anymore..." Too hot, too smalltime, inflated egos, can't slide, it's not the same game.

Congrats on the win, in general, skewed logic aside, ice hockey players ARE going to be the better players. FYI from the perspective of a tennis fan that BJK tennis "win" was a sideshow.

[btbpitt71]

Originally Posted by cuprajake

yeah we hit, thats part of hockey. were all adults and take it as part of the game, at some lower kiddie levels its a case of safety first. but we do hit.

in beer leagues it is not full contact is what i am saying. roller players are accustom to not being laid out after getting rid of the puck and having time to stickhandle because they wont be bumped off the puck. Ice players have that sense of urgency so they do not stick handle as much or hold on to the puck as long. my point is that if it were a legit hockey game where it was full contact, not just some bumping or maybe riding off the puck, the roller team would not stand a chance.

[soulpatch]

Originally Posted by btbpitt71

in beer leagues it is not full contact is what i am saying. roller players are accustom to not being laid out after getting rid of the puck and having time to stickhandle because they wont be bumped off the puck. Ice players have that sense of urgency so they do not stick handle as much or hold on to the puck as long. my point is that if it were a legit hockey game where it was full contact, not just some bumping or maybe riding off the puck, the roller team would not stand a chance.

Maybe the leagues around you play like that but not around me. There is more hitting into the boards and such allowed in my roller leagues then in ice. I get hit a lot more in roller then ice as well.

I disagree completly with the ice players being better. I am more or less switching to ice only now as my body demands it and the talent level in roller on the same levels is higher. Outside of those that continue to take it to the next level in ice I would put any beer leaguer ice guy against a roller guy on either surface and most likely take the roller team. Just better all around rounded players in roller then ice.

I hear a lot of the complaints about rolle rbeing the lack of sliding. Never really had problems going post to post. Perhaps you should update your gear or learn the movements better.

heat - yeah it is hot. Newsflash it is not played on ice...... Means more conditioning is needed to stay on top of your game

speed of game - roller is faster again you had better be in top condition and know where to be....

size of rink - Ice is larger which helps to slow down the game. Offsides and the additional man on the rink for each side pretty much balances out the size aspect though IMHO

Not the same game - uh.....Duh. The basic strategy is the same but ice is MUCH more forgiving for skill. Roller you had better be in shape and know what to do or you will be burned bad. You can not be so out of place and recover like you can in ice. Just the way of the game.

Personally I always liked the faster pace and better shots I faced in roller. My body is beginning to rebel against me though and I am finding ice to be the easier route to go. Plus the saves are easier to make making me look soo much better out there....

[PSULion22]

Ok, are we talking skaters or goalie here?

Ice is much, much more physically demanding than roller for a skater. It isn't even close. You have to be in much better shape to keep up in ice. There is a lot more stopping and starting and physical grinding play in the boards and front. That tires you out much faster. Plus, your feet always have to be moving since your momentum slows much quicker because of the friction with the ice. Even with the heat in roller, ice is more demanding.

When push comes to shove, at comparable elite levels, the team who is playing their game will win. Because of the ceiling in roller talent, you can't compare them to Gretzky or an NHL team, you have to take them against a team of a similar level. There are many examples and all of them point to the ice team winning on ice, even if you played no checking. For instance, if you put the Team USA U-18 WJC ice and roller teams (the highest possible at the U-18 level in the US) against each other on ice, the ice team would win. But, that may not even be a good comparison because the ice team is more developed. The best one I can share is one that I have personal experience with. In 2002, Penn State's roller team finished second to Lindenwood in the NCRHA and the Icers won the ACHA NC. That is about the best you can get at the college level. If you put the roller team against the Icers in an ice game, it wouldn't be close. The Icers would win by 10+. Even PSU's DII team which was decent would beat the roller team. And that was the second best roller team in the country. But, I think if you put the Icers in a roller game (4v4, no icing or offsides) the roller team would win. (though not by as much as the ice team on ice).

At lower levels, the roller team wins almost every time, regardless of venue, because lower level ice teams don't play or develop like a team to the point needed to beat a roller team on an individual basis.

That is the key in this debate. High level ice teams play a very possession oriented, grinding game. All of the play is focused below the half boards, behind the net, and in the corners, cycling the puck to generate scoring chances. It is slow and physical. The puck moves to the point when the play is sucked down low and traffic is brought fiercely to the net. On defense, players are always brought back to fill the middle of the neutral zone and the front of the net. Roller predominantly plays high in the zone, using quick passes to spread the rink horizontally. It is very similar to using an umbrella power play in ice. Roller is also a much more individual game in the sense the most of the offense relies on the guy with the puck beating his guy high in the zone and creating a mismatch somewhere else. There is very little dump and chase. Being able to stretch the rink vertically, without offsides or icing, lends to a very transition heavy game. Because low level ice teams don't often play the grinding, possession game, they are playing more similar to the roller game. That gives the benefit to the roller player who is generally a better, more creative individual player who doesn't have to adapt his game other than adjusting to the weight of the puck.

At low levels the game is the same, and that is why the roller team wins. At higher levels the two games are completely different and the "foreign" team has to adjust too much to beat the "natural" team at its own game.

[goPens]

Beer league being defined as NON pro, and Rec league.

In general my observation is that older/bigger folks are generally in ICE, younger folks are playing roller. At the lower levels the roller folks are younger, because of which they are faster and have greater endurance. That's their edge. You take them against an organized Ice team that is the same age and they would get smoked.

Lower level ICE is pretty much adults that never played organized hockey before that are now doing so, or much older adults that played many many moons ago.
With a smattering of "ringers" thrown in.

When you go to upper levels of ICE it changes ALOT. The people who've done years of organized hockey at pretty decent levels are up here. Those years of drills and practicing show. The "ringers" at the lower levels are towards the low end of talent up here.

Now if you are saying that the college kids on roller can beat an old low level beer league ice team comprised of guys who've never really skated at anything above that, sure I'll agree to that.

If you want to tell me that you are gonna take a bunch ex AHL'ers, former Division I - III players, and some good ex high school hockey players and you are gonna beat them with a roller team, I think you are mistaken.

I will agree that if the ICE guys never ever played roller and the game is on roller that that will shorten the gap some, but that's rarely the case around here that an ICE hockey player has never skated on roller.

I've watched hockey kids grow up, (I'm raising some of my own) around here I've seen stars on roller
that transitioned to ICE to keep progressing

[cuprajake]

haha i never knew this would spark such a debate.

thats the problem though 90% of hockey in the uk is lower level play,

the age thing for us wasn't true anyways, we have a 50yr old play for us, but the average age is about 26.

dont forget, baring a few public skating sessions most of our guys had not skated/played with a puck on ice,

the whole point though was the attitude that is comming from the ice guy's on here that roller players wouldn't stand a chance.

dont forget that if you pick comparable levels of ice/roller the skill in roller will be higher.

i agree ice is a very system based game, where the puck is worked into areas,

but if you give me the chance to watch english league ice (semi pro) or a good roller game, i know which i'd watch.

you are right though to continue to develop you do need to go to ice, there just isn't the oppertunities for inline, people dont think its real hockey.

regarding the hitting side,

i don't know about the us but in the uk, most inline rinks are sports halls with brick walls, when you have a guy checking you into brick, it doesn't give the same as a plexi glass boards.

and we dont get paid for playing so people can take it easy, well till its a competitive game anyways

jake

[whalercane]

Originally Posted by PSULion22

Ok, are we talking skaters or goalie here?

Ice is much, much more physically demanding than roller for a skater. It isn't even close. You have to be in much better shape to keep up in ice. There is a lot more stopping and starting and physical grinding play in the boards and front. That tires you out much faster. Plus, your feet always have to be moving since your momentum slows much quicker because of the friction with the ice. Even with the heat in roller, ice is more demanding.

When push comes to shove, at comparable elite levels, the team who is playing their game will win. Because of the ceiling in roller talent, you can't compare them to Gretzky or an NHL team, you have to take them against a team of a similar level. There are many examples and all of them point to the ice team winning on ice, even if you played no checking. For instance, if you put the Team USA U-18 WJC ice and roller teams (the highest possible at the U-18 level in the US) against each other on ice, the ice team would win. But, that may not even be a good comparison because the ice team is more developed. The best one I can share is one that I have personal experience with. In 2002, Penn State's roller team finished second to Lindenwood in the NCRHA and the Icers won the ACHA NC. That is about the best you can get at the college level. If you put the roller team against the Icers in an ice game, it wouldn't be close. The Icers would win by 10+. Even PSU's DII team which was decent would beat the roller team. And that was the second best roller team in the country. But, I think if you put the Icers in a roller game (4v4, no icing or offsides) the roller team would win. (though not by as much as the ice team on ice).

At lower levels, the roller team wins almost every time, regardless of venue, because lower level ice teams don't play or develop like a team to the point needed to beat a roller team on an individual basis.

That is the key in this debate. High level ice teams play a very possession oriented, grinding game. All of the play is focused below the half boards, behind the net, and in the corners, cycling the puck to generate scoring chances. It is slow and physical. The puck moves to the point when the play is sucked down low and traffic is brought fiercely to the net. On defense, players are always brought back to fill the middle of the neutral zone and the front of the net. Roller predominantly plays high in the zone, using quick passes to spread the rink horizontally. It is very similar to using an umbrella power play in ice. Roller is also a much more individual game in the sense the most of the offense relies on the guy with the puck beating his guy high in the zone and creating a mismatch somewhere else. There is very little dump and chase. Being able to stretch the rink vertically, without offsides or icing, lends to a very transition heavy game. Because low level ice teams don't often play the grinding, possession game, they are playing more similar to the roller game. That gives the benefit to the roller player who is generally a better, more creative individual player who doesn't have to adapt his game other than adjusting to the weight of the puck.

At low levels the game is the same, and that is why the roller team wins. At higher levels the two games are completely different and the "foreign" team has to adjust too much to beat the "natural" team at its own game.

Couldn't agree more on just about each point. Excellent post- you pretty much nailed every point relevant to this issue.

-Ryan

[kicksavethunder]

i played roller for a year but then switched to ice for these reasons.

i was getting scored on 8 times a game which is normal for roller but it just seems like way to much.

you cant shuffle or t glide which are 2 basic things in ice

waaaaaaaaayyyyyy too hot

you cant slide in a butterfly so if u hit the ice ur bassicaly screwed

overall i think ice is way better

[whalercane]

Originally Posted by kicksavethunder

i played roller for a year but then switched to ice for these reasons.

i was getting scored on 8 times a game which is normal for roller but it just seems like way to much.

you cant shuffle or t glide which are 2 basic things in ice

waaaaaaaaayyyyyy too hot

you cant slide in a butterfly so if u hit the ice ur bassicaly screwed

overall i think ice is way better

I personally agree with what you're saying but the point you're making has little if anything to do with the focus of this thread.

This isn't about "Ice is better because_____", or "Roller is better because____". The real debate is over how ice and roller players/teams of the same or similar skill level would fair if matched up against one another.

[Weirdo]

Originally Posted by cuprajake

but if you give me the chance to watch english league ice (semi pro) or a good roller game, i know which i'd watch.

I doubt you would choose the RHI or the NHL. Then again you are English.

you are right though to continue to develop you do need to go to ice, there just isn't the oppertunities for inline, people dont think its real hockey.

Of course, people don't think of roller hockey as real hockey. If ice hockey was the point of reference. It's a sub-set or a modified version of ice hockey. Just like ball hockey. They were played when there was no ice to be played on. Don't forget inline skates were created for ice hockey players to simulate ice skates. Roller hockey was just a natural by product of that.

People will just have their own preferences. Heck, there are people out there who think soccer, basketball are better than hockey. I can't explain why but there are.

[foodsample]

K, Roller sux .. Ice Pwns .. END!

[ukgoalie19]

Its turned into a pretty interesting debate but I personally think that go pens and PSUlion have made the key points, soulpatch I have to disagree with almost everything you have said, especially roller being faster!? players can't physically skate anyway near as faster on roller compared to ice, their manoeuvrability is also dramatically restricted too. The only way that you could asses that roller is faster is if you looked at the movement of the puck within the rink and then I wouldn’t imagine there being a massive difference.
The reason I think that a lot of roller hockey players think that ice is slower (and I used to think this too) is because when they first switch over they end up playing for a poor, low level ice team, at a lower level than their roller team so of course roller appears faster. Now, if you looked at comparable ability levels ice is faster. As for the argument that roller is more challenging to play in goal, I’d probably agree, to do what you can on ice on roller is far harder, but then so would be playing football (soccer) in sandals, but that doesn’t make it better.

Having said that I don’t think roller is a bad game, it does emphasize a different skill set (for players), but I personally prefer ice hockey because the game has more depth, as a greater range of skills and abilities are needed to be a great ice player.

[Matt The Hammer]

Am I the only one that plays roller on a NHL size rink?