Asian / North American Quality Gap Shrinking

[angelo]

I have been playing guitar for 24 years and have seen the same thing in that market. Due to CNC machines, 3 one hundred dollar bills in the pocket of a kid today can buy a better guitar than the SAME 3 one hundred dollar bills could have bought me 20 years ago. Forget inflation!


I look at A LOT of pads in the junior and intermediate sizes for my son. I have noticed that where just a few years ago there were cheap asian crap and good Canadian gear, there is now a new catagory: quality asian gear.



Sure it is not as good, but there is now the opportunity to buy decent Asian made gear. Vault? INT RBK? INT DX4?


Problem is, the price jumps too. So, it is only a few more $ for Canadian made Brian's or Vaughn.

In the end, I wonder if this may hurt the guys like Mc.......... and *.........

[Fade2Black]

It's not where it's made, it's how it's made.

I've had a pair of Canadian made Vaughn pants fall apart on me. So I don't buy into the hype that all Canadian gear is made better.

[ratrodkid51]

all always buy either Canadian or American gear, i wont buy anything from over seas if possible

[angelo]

Originally Posted by ratrodkid51

all always buy either Canadian or American gear, i wont buy anything from over seas if possible

That's a philosophical stance. Which, by the way, I DO agree with. My point is that the quality is getting better.


Heck, my son and I both have Brian's cups made in Malaysia or whatever.


His Vaughn C/A was the best out there for his size ----- made in China!!!!!!!

yikes.

[Jellybean]

It's all about quality control...something they don't have overseas probably.

[Avant-Gardien]

Originally Posted by Jellybean

It's all about quality control...something they don't have overseas probably.

Generalization much?

[chunkinstien]

Well , working in a business where I visit manufacturing businesses on a daily basis, the trend I am hearing is that the quality (keep in mind please , this is building materials-Glass, stone & concrete products, as well as printed circuits) is getting closer.

The companys that I speak with are concerned about the quality coming closer to the Canadian made, and as well, the higher Canadian dollar is having an impact.

One of my companies, was a huge glass facility in Mississauga, and they just recently shut down, due to the high Canadian dollar vs. the US $. That's not the same as the asian market, but an example of the economy.

As far as the circuits, it is a totally different market then it was years ago, where a consumer buying printed circuits would sho-sho the overseas products due to defects. In a "build to spec" type market, the defects for offshore are comming down significantly. This is causing further streamlining for the Canadian companies, as they cannot compete on the labour costs.

I think of a company like Sherwood, where they will cut all(or some) their dies and materials in Canada, and then get the assembly done overseas, which tightens the quality control of their product.

At the end of the day, it's what is in your price range. But I would hate to see independent companies (Brian Heaton, Mckenney, ect) go under due to people going for the lower price point products.

If I had kids who played goal, how could I justify for a growing kid, Canadian made pads versus a cheaper pad, as he will shortly outgrow them.

Just a thought...........

[Reedy8284]

For me since im not growing and what not i spent the dollars and got good ole American made Smiths. Almost got Made in America printed on em for the extra cash. For my daughter ( almost 3 ) she will be getting the gear that offers the most protection for the lowest cost due to her not being the same size for a long long time still. Im glad quality is going up overseas. Lowers the price for me and gives me a good product. When my daughter quits growing and if she is still playing i will be more than happy to pay top dollar for her American/Canadian made gear. Until then it's not logical dollar wise.

[chunkinstien]

My mom was a single mom raising me, so I had cheap ass stuff until I could afford my own. Back then they did not have offshore stuff, so I just ended up getting senior gear, as opposed to pro level stuff.

It served me fine, and now that I buy my own stuff I choose to go for quality over the price.

With the bridge gap shrinking, I guess it is safe to say that the consumer does win, until the North American made stuff cannot compete anymore on a price level.

Example: Would you buy a Vaughn catcher at a premium, if it was made in Ontario? If the exact same glove was available for 15-20% less being made overseas?

My first non-canadian made skates broke on me, within a year........just an example...

[Bryan]

Not all of the overseas manufacturing is outsourced either. Contrary to popular belief, China is allowing north american companies to run and even own their own factories. Quality is a lot easier to control when you are the one running the facility.

My feeling is similar to previous opinions: While I prefer to buy Canadian first, American second, and elsewhere only if I have to, I also no longer equate asian made with low quality. I've seen good and bad workmanship from both north american made and asian products alike.

[expatgoalie]

[quote=Bryan]Not all of the overseas manufacturing is outsourced either. Contrary to popular belief, China is allowing north american companies to run and even own their own factories. Quality is a lot easier to control when you are the one running the facility.

QUOTE]


Bingo! Most of the "quality" factories here are run by expats. My job here is to control production of our Asian factories to ensure that S**t isnt being delievered to our stores. The factories must face certain ISO and ITS standard Quality certiifications every year to be eligible to work with us.

Granted, you still have factories in north china and other places that are sweatshops, but they also don't get much exposure to north american markets sow e dont see the shoddy quality anymore. It's very interesting to see others' take on manufactured goods in Asia. I have been out here for a few years now and have seen the quality of products (speaking from garments, the field i am in) revolutionize pretty much overnight.

[kdedesko]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. The Asian manufacturing capability, China in particular, have tremendous assembly resources at very cost effective prices (i.e. call it slave labour if you want).

I have heard that Sherwood is carefully ensuring quality control of the assembly of the materials they have already cut and shipped over, with the result being the C5 is pretty close to the C10 at a fraction of the cost.

I wonder about long term sustainability of lower costs however. As China and India (i.e. current call centre capital of the planet for companies like Dell and IBM) join the global market as consumers, they'll have to raise labour prices so they can afford to consume products and materials brought in from elsewhere.

I know in telecommunications companies like ZTE and Huawei are giving the established players like Cisco, Nortel, Avaya, Alcatel some pretty significant competion and they basically came out of nowhere in the last few years, by offering low prices on copied products.

The point could be made that the communists have figured out a way to beat democracy and capitalism; by using a free market against us. And we may just let them do it. Pretty scary.

Ken

[Lord of the Cage]

There is a major component missing from this discussion.

Feel and Fit.

I get to see the overseas products daily! From the first produced offshore products 'til '06 products there is a very significant increase in quality of materials, craftmenship, and fit. These is easy to see. HOWEVER, The materials used throughout the products are still nowhere near the quality you get from North American producers. The price on offshore products has climbed from when they were first released. Some of the materials are still the same with major improvements in seam quality and thread strength. But the foams and synthetics still have not been changed significantly.

For a growing child I see no reason why a parent would go domestic unless they are on the ice 5 times a week. You see the domestic products being worn by elite youth players and they should, given the abuse they put on the gear.

For an adult getting the most for your money is always the objective. Why an adult would buy overseas products is beyond me. You will replace your overseas products more often than a North American and usually that means spending more than a North American product for the same amount of use, at best it will be a wash.

Things like pants, jocks, and throat collars I see overseas production doing well. These are very disposable products with a short life regardless of how well you treat them(excluding throat collars).

For items like a C/A, Pads, trapper, blocker the overseas products don't have the feel or fit that a North American product does. There are many steps in the production process that need to be taken and many of the better assemblers along the line check and re-check that the product is ergonomically correct and proper biomechanics. This is where North American products are far, far superior. Simply because they are built for goalies by goalies, or highly trained staff that have been taught and know what to look for. Overseas products have still not mastered this important element to any piece of gear. Consistancy is also not where it needs to be, although it is getting better.

I know myself if I used high end overseas gear I would need two sets a year. I still play 5 to 6 times a week in the winter and in the summer about 4 or 5. Not including tournaments. That is also a combination of ice and inline. With North American gear I get a full year or two out of my gear. So with dollars and cents in mind I come out ahead with North American dollar wise and 10 fold in fit, feel, and performance.

Lord of the Cage

[kdedesko]

LOTC

Good points....Getting gear from North American craftsman who understand what it's suppose to do, or better yet have a passion for it themselves, is the way to go.

If you can't afford the big name brands, then try folks like Smith, Battram, DS, McKenney, Jossa, Boddam, Viper Hockey, and Vortek to name a few.

I can't get over a Smith 3000 for $675 US, for example.

Ken

[Lord of the Cage]

kdedesko,

I agree that these smaller, not as well known manufacturers offer a great alternative to the more well known brands but some of those names you listed I personally wouldn't support.

I am not a fan of the Ripoff and Duplicate companies. When I was a lot younger I did buy from these type of companies and supported their business practices. Now that I am older and wiser(term used very loosely) I value people that put a lot of thought as well as time developing their gear to work and be useful to the widest amount of people. It is amazing what type of prespective you have of the industry when viewing it from the outside and then it totally changes when you are actually involved, even minimally, in the day to day business activities of the industry. Some of the stories and business that goes on it amazing and shocking all at once.

Even still these "copycat" companies do provide an alternative to getting North American gear at a reasonable price. That's the great thing about choices. Whether you buy because of price, where the product was made, who is making the product, and who you develop a relationship with.

Lord of the Cage