How Thighguards Affect the Butterfly

[Temple]

Hi all, I'm a brand new goalie, but I do hope that this post will be useful to others.

After much searching, I decided to go with the Vaughn 7400 pad and glove set. So far I'm pleased. Obviously I'm not able to compare them to any other brand or model, but I was able to feel quite comfortable in them by my fourth time wearing goalie gear. There was nothing that felt off or uncomfortable, with one exception, the thighguards.

Thighguards are protective shielding for your knees and thighs. They're built right into the pads like thighboards, but unlike thighboards, which go outside your pants, the thighguards tuck under your pants. My experiences are specific to the Vaughn 7400 thighguards, but I imagine this will be of benefit to anybody who is wondering about thighguards on their current/future pads.

When I'd read (and read, and read) the equipment reviews, I'd heard that the first thing most people did with the 7400's was to remove the thighguards. I figured I'd do the same, but I wanted to understand why I wanted to, before doing it.

Right from the start the thigh guards seemed a bit restrictive, both when standing upright, and when in the butterfly position. Obviously goalies don't spend too much time standing straight upright, and when they do, they don't need their pads to be perfect, but when in this position it felt as if the pad was restricting mobility somewhat. It was difficult to lock my knees, and it felt that the pants were being pushed up on. Again, I didn't think it was that important, as really how pads feel when you're standing straight up is pretty low on the list of concerns.

In the butterfly, the thighguards seemed to push up and out on my pants a bit. It didn't seem that restrictive, but it did feel a bit annoying. Additionally, in two of my first three ice times taking shots, I managed to get hit pretty nicely above the knee. I hadn't noticed it at the time, but I got some nice deep bruising to show off to the girlfriend.

So, figuring I'd tried the thighguard experiment, I decided to get some kneepads, and ordered the VKP 8000 knee and thigh pads. Today I replaced my thighguards and was quite surprised at the difference. I documented my experiments in a photo-essay that I call:

Temple's Thighguard Test: or How Sub-Trousal Thigh Protection Affects the Blocking Capability of the Carpetfly

To begin, again I'm brand new and have a very narrow butterfly. I know that this is something that I can improve with stretching. I stretched well, put my gear on, and took two pictures in each equipment configuration. The first is a narrow, comfortable butterfly (giggyfly I believe is what the kids are calling it these days) that I dropped into. The second is the widest butterfly I can manipulate myself into without hurting myself. I understand that a carpetfly does not necessarily show what a butterfly will look like, but I think the differences shown between configurations are relevant.

Please click as desired for larger images.

Configuration 1: With Thighguards, Without Kneepads
Note the outward twist to the top of the pad, the bit of flesh showing on my thigh, the gaping hole in coverage, and the apparent pain indicated by flailing arms in the second pic.




Configuration 2: With Thighguards, With Kneepads
Please again draw your attention to the twisted pads, and the gaping hole begging for pucks to pass through, which is somehow wider when I flare out wider in the second pic.




Configuration 3: Without Thighguards, With Kneepads
Note in these pictures, I almost look like a goalie. The twisting outward of the tops of the pads is gone, and I can actually almost entirely seal my 5-hole both with a narrow and wide flared carpetfly. Notice also that the second picture shows a much wider flared carpetfly, and that it was so comfortable, that I took a pose of nonchalance with my hands on my hips.




Configuration 4: Without Thighguards, Without Kneepads
This configuration is included for completeness as a control to compare against how either or both of the thighguards or kneepads affect the carpetfly.





Other notes are that when wearing the kneepads without the thighguards, the pads seemed much more comfortable, both while down in the fly and while standing straight upright. It also seemed that my mobility was improved, I have a feeling that my skating will be helped by this modification. I will be playing a game tomorrow night and will post an update on how my on-ice butterfly feels as well as overall mobility and comfort.

That's it, thanks for your patronage. Hopefully this was enjoyable if not informative for you.

Craig

[Arcturus]

Nice experiment, thanks for sharing it with us.

I believe one reason why you found the thighguards more uncomfortable over the kneepads may be the fact that the thighguards are attached to your pads while the kneepads are not. Thus the kneepads allows the pads to rotate more freely while staying in their place, whereas the thighguards follow the rotation of the pads when dropping to butterfly. As such, the thighguards tend to feel more uncomfortable under the pants. Another point to consider is how much room there is inside the pants i.e. tight fit allows for less rotation of the thighguards.

[c0nquistad0rian]

I do agree that this was a good experiment. But, you could have been a little more descriptive in the title to let people know about the experiment. Something like thighguards and/or kneepads experiment (with pictures). Maybe you could PM a mod to change the title?

I personally prefer the knee pads, no thighguards/thighboards method. And as your pictures demonstrate, that method best allows you to keep your knees together to cover the five hole while still being adequately protected.

I feel that having the protection attached to the pads in a traditional way hinders rotation. I am sure that there are ways to attach the protection to the pad in such a way that it doesn't restrict rotation: the Reason Y pads have thigh guards that are attached by one piece of elastic and don't seem as restrictive from the pictures.

[Back In Net 35]

I'm having similar issues with my RBK 6k's.... The thighguards get in the way when I have them under my pants. I never had this issue with my old ******* pads and I'm not sure why I'm having t hem now since the pads are the same size.

I tried them on last night with the thighguards over my pants and it seemed to feel better but I'm not sure if this is a smart way to use them (protection wise). I also only tried this at home and not yet on the ice so I was wondering what you guys would recommend other than getting knee pads (i hate them).

[Temple]

Originally Posted by Arcturus

Another point to consider is how much room there is inside the pants i.e. tight fit allows for less rotation of the thighguards.

I was thinking about it last night, and I think I may have figured out exactly why the thighguards were causing my pads to rotate like that. My pants are quite roomy with the thighguards on, and I strapped the elastic very loose over my thighs. I think the root cause of my particular issues is the curve in the thighguard.

My knee would be right up under the top of the curve when the pads were not rotated. The edge of the thighguard would be lower around my thigh. So, when rotating the pads, the thighguards couldn't quite rotate fully, because the outside edge of the thighguard would have to come up and over my knee. Since that couldn't happen, they would stick, and hence the partial twisting of the pad.

Originally Posted by c0nquistad0rian

I do agree that this was a good experiment. But, you could have been a little more descriptive in the title to let people know about the experiment. Something like thighguards and/or kneepads experiment (with pictures). Maybe you could PM a mod to change the title?

Good suggestion, I think I spent too much time writing the post and forgot to go back and edit the temp-title. Changed now.

Originally Posted by Back In Net 35

I tried them on last night with the thighguards over my pants and it seemed to feel better but I'm not sure if this is a smart way to use them (protection wise). I also only tried this at home and not yet on the ice so I was wondering what you guys would recommend other than getting knee pads (i hate them).

Well, I think the concept of curved thighguards that fit the profile of your thigh is a good idea for protection. However if you rotate that protection, most of the benefits of a thighguard are rendered useless. A curved shield is always going to have a bunch of wasted space when you rotate it. This wasted space is likely only going to push up or out on your pads or pants. Kneepads are essentially knee pads and thigh guards attached and strapped to your leg, they don't rotate.

Since you don't like Kneepads, you might try removing your thighguards from your pads and finding a way to attach them to your leg, like the thigh protection of a knee pad. It may be tricky to get them solidly attached without moving around on you, but hopefully you'll get the benefit you're looking for, without having to go to kneepads. You may be able to loosely attach the thighguards to the inside of your pants, which will prevent them from migrating too much.

Craig

[Huntster]

I wear both thighguards (laced into my pants) and thighboards. I found I would always get nailed if I just used one of them.

[spidergoalie]

Thighboards ftw.
Thighguard to me always seem like a good idea mainly because I hate wearing knee pads, and I've tried them. However I find that either they hinder pad rotation or the rotation render the thighguards not so effective.

I experimented this past season with my velo1 thighboards (which attach to the top pad strap and thus have a restraint system) and a set of PAW rbk-ish thighboards with no restraint.
For knee protection no restraints is better because the TB can stay close to the knee, however you are more likely to have issues with them getting caught on the pants. The PAWS are extremely well made but if I were ordering them again I would have gone a bit smaller (they are 9" X 9") and had Sara add a velo 1 type restraint option.
I found in the end I like the smaller and restrained velo TB, however it really is only functioning as a thighrise extension for me.

The bottom line was for a Jiggy-type BF the PAWs were better both for protection and creating an inverted V for added rebound control. For a more tradition flaired BF the velos worked better. I tend to have a somewhat more flaired BF so I like the smaller velo TB better.

anyway sorry ofr the digression. I just think attaching to the pad works for Thigh boards, not so well for thigh guards.

[bguminey]

Just my two cents since I do not have vaughn pads I have dx2 pads with thigh guards. I do not wear knee pads under them i was having a similar problem as well, I although took a knee stack out and it fixed the problem I do not know if this would help you out but its worth a shot.

Bryan

[Gasman]

In the butterfly, the thighguards seemed to push up and out on my pants a bit. It didn't seem that restrictive, but it did feel a bit annoying.

An excellent post, well written and well done! It would also depend upon the pant that you were using as well. Basically if you have a wider pant, the outside of the pad is going to interfere regardless. I've found on the Vaughn pads that the outer knee flap can be a real hinderance to rotation if you have too tight of a knee cradle strap. I think if I was to get a new Velocity setup again, I'd completely remove that outer flap and strap as Bryzgala (sp?) does because that combined with a bulkier kneepad would not help my play.

[Big Daddy D]

A few things that have donned on me while trying on pads, having customers try on pads with the newer style thigh guards.

Those 7400 thigh guards are not my favorite, I think the strapping needs to be done right too.

I wonder if anyone has tried sewing/lacing the thigh guards in on an angle.

There are also a lot these newer thigh guards that are just way too long. Or where the thigh guards lace in, it makes them sit too high on the leg and that little corner basically the inside knee is still velnerable.

I think this, sitting too high, especially on a pant that will not accomodate these inside the leg is the biggest trouble spot in the uncomfortable feel, loss of mobility/rotation.

Why do these thigh guards have to have so much padding for the outside of the thigh when it is almost always the inside that gets hit?

Originally Posted by Gasman

I think if I was to get a new Velocity setup again, I'd completely remove that outer flap and strap as Bryzgala (sp?) does because that combined with a bulkier kneepad would not help my play.

Paul did you find anything yet that WOULD help your play???

BUUUUUUUUUUURN!!! Sorry man, it was there.

I personally don't wear anything, knee pads, thigh guards etc when I play, I gt the 5-hole closed so I find I'm not as much at risk, but I've been hit on occaision and will be hit again. I just live with it.

[rusto33]

i have the brian's lace-in thigh guard and velo 2s. i solved the rotation problem by leaving some slack when lacing in the thigh guard. this allows the thigh guard to stay in place on my leg and it doesn't have to twist when going down in the b-fly and therefore doesn't hinder rotation.

[Arcturus]

As Big Daddy D said, lacing the thighguards in angle could help a little, but it may also leave the knee more exposed. Other way to do it would be to lace the guards loosely or with elastic cord, but that would again leave the knee more exposed.

Also, as stated previously the inside leg of the pants play a role here. I would imagine that pants with some kind of leg cradle or channel (like the Velocity pants have) will not work well with thighguards, whereas pants with more open leg area (such as Bauers) would be be more tolerant to this thighboard rotation when in the bfly.

I personally hated thighboards the most, and was also experimenting the thighguards laced in with elastic cord to pads. It helped, but I didn't like the setup very much, though. Also tried playing commando, but the puck eventually finds its way to the knee. Now I 've found the new RBK ps2 kneepads to be the most comfortable for myself. At first they seem bulky, but work incredibly well.

[Temple]

Originally Posted by Arcturus

Also, as stated previously the inside leg of the pants play a role here. I would imagine that pants with some kind of leg cradle or channel (like the Velocity pants have) will not work well with thighguards, whereas pants with more open leg area (such as Bauers) would be be more tolerant to this thighboard rotation when in the bfly.

Actually, I don't believe the pad twisting was due to the pants. As I mentioned above, I think that it was actually the curvature of the thighguard not being able to rotate against the curvature of the thigh that can prevent full rotation of the pad.

Maybe I'll take a fifth set of images with the thighguards and with no pants.

Temple

[c0nquistad0rian]

Originally Posted by Temple

Actually, I don't believe the pad twisting was due to the pants. As I mentioned above, I think that it was actually the curvature of the thighguard not being able to rotate against the curvature of the thigh that can prevent full rotation of the pad.

Maybe I'll take a fifth set of images with the thighguards and with no pants.

Temple

This isn't that kinda board

[Canucks_Fan]

Originally Posted by Temple

Maybe I'll take a fifth set of images with the thighguards and with no pants.

Temple

Please keep your pants on sir.

Great experiment. My RBK 8K's have no thighguards and I wear kneeepads and personally I have had no restrictions on the rotation of the pads. I am also in the same boat as yourself, an older goalie with a much more narrow butterfly.