Barry Bonds indicted

[Vision]

Ludicrous. Pete Rose reached his heights on the ball field naturally and was a tremendous competitor, the likes of which are not often seen. What he did after his playing days were over has no bearing on his on field accomplishments.

As far as Bonds record, did I misread something? Has he been indicted for USING performance enhancing substances?


::m

[CKeelty]

No, he's been indicted for lying when he said he didn't. Get it?

And Rose is widely believed to have thrown games as a manager in the interest of winning bets. That's cheating.

[Holy the Goalie]

Believed, hell Rose ADMITTED to it. He wrote a book, and wanted to "come clean" before everyone read about it in his book.

I don't care if Rose had 10,000 hits, and Bonds had hit 900 home runs; you cheat, you're out. You can kiss your records, stats, and HOF eligibility good bye. Do that to a couple of people, and everyone else is gonna learn pretty damn quick that they would be better off playing within the rules.

[Kael]

Originally Posted by Holy the Goalie

Believed, hell Rose ADMITTED to it. He wrote a book, and wanted to "come clean" before everyone read about it in his book.

I don't care if Rose had 10,000 hits, and Bonds had hit 900 home runs; you cheat, you're out. You can kiss your records, stats, and HOF eligibility good bye. Do that to a couple of people, and everyone else is gonna learn pretty damn quick that they would be better off playing within the rules.

What's funny is how Bonds was granted immunity like all the other players from what I recall. He didn't take it, as it surely would have cost him his chance at the record and the HOF (see: McGwire).

The guys an ass.

As far as Bonds record, did I misread something? Has he been indicted for USING performance enhancing substances?

He's been indicted for lying about using them. Therego, the Government has enough evidence to prove (from what I've heard, including test results) he used them. They have to prove he used them to prove he committed perjury. If they win the perjury case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they hit him again with the drug charges. If they hit him with the drug charges AND LOST, they'd be without a case for the these charges.

Essentially - They're going for the double instead of the home run. As the next at bat is a consistent base-hitter and will get them where they need to be, it's just going to be in a little more time.

[CKeelty]

Originally Posted by Holy the Goalie

Believed, hell Rose ADMITTED to it. He wrote a book, and wanted to "come clean" before everyone read about it in his book.

I don't care if Rose had 10,000 hits, and Bonds had hit 900 home runs; you cheat, you're out. You can kiss your records, stats, and HOF eligibility good bye. Do that to a couple of people, and everyone else is gonna learn pretty damn quick that they would be better off playing within the rules.

I do think it makes a difference (in the minds of the fans, anyway, not necessarily to the league or Hall of Fame) that Rose's cheating didn't help him achieve any of his playing records - and as a manager, if anything, he worsened his records in the interest of gambling. So he's still legitimately a talented ball player, even if he is personally a disgrace.

Bonds, on the other hand, is a complete disgrace. The drug use invalidates everything he's achieved as a player on the field. Being that they didn't get him off the field before he "broke the record," I think the league is obligated to go to length to take that record away from him for all-time.

[bc30]

Rose violated a rule that is considered so important that it is posted on the wall of every major league clubhouse, and has been for decades. You cannot wager on a major league baseball game - ever. He did, and was banned from baseball. If you are banned from baseball, you cannot be voted into the Hall of Fame.

Rose had a couple decades to come clean, and didn't. Maybe if he came clean early on, he could have petitioned baseball to lift the ban, and he would have had a chance to be voted in. But his "confession" was too little, too late, and really seemed a cyinical last-ditch effort to get reinstated before his last chance to be put on the HOF ballot. I don't think it helped that he was selling a book to make the confession, either.


As for Bonds, the Gov't is accusing him of two things - perjury in front of a grand jury, and obstruction of justice. The original investigation was into the BALCO laboratory, who was supplying illegal performance enhancing drugs to lots of folks in lots of sports, especially Olympians, and a few high-profile MLB players.

Bonds was a paid endorser for the company's supposedly legal suppliments, and therefore involved. He was given immunity to speak in secret grand jury testimony about what he knew and what he took. He claimed he never used anything illegal, and knew nothing. The govt. is certain he's lying and if there is one thing the govt. doesn't put up with, it is being lied to in grand jury testimony, especially if you lie to them after you have been given immunity.

The govt will go to any expense to "get" anyone who they think has lied to them. (the govt. lying to us is the topic for another day)

They didn't care if Bonds used every 'roid in the book - They were after the supplier, not the user - what they cared about was the 'truthyness' of Bonds' story. Lying to the grand jury obstructed the govt's case vs. the supplier.

Jason Giambi testified in front of the same grand jury, and other than some personal embarrassment when transcripts of his testimony were leaked, suffered no legal repercussions. He made a public apology without specifically saying what he was apologizing for, and went back to playing baseball.

Bonds was so arrogant that he thought he could get away with denying under oath that he ever used the stuff, even as his hat size was increasing like Pinnochio's nose.