Success in Iraq?

[Steve L]

Originally Posted by Goaliedad

I think that if there had been a draft our body count would be doubled. Because it is always easy to throw away soldiers when you have an endless supply. I don't think that if the draft had been in place the goverment would have been forced to stay out of Iraq. If we institute a draft it will not be to go fight a war but rather to go police a country that is in the process of going into a civil war. As I recall we went into Iraq to get WMD's, seems like now we are there to fight the Extreme Muslim Crusade. I grew up during the Viet Nam and was surrounded by military people. People who don't want to fight don't make good soldiers or policemen.

The point with the draft is this:

With a volunteer army, people find it easier to be in favor of the war, as the men and women fighting it all "volunteered" to be there. therefore there seems to be a feeling that it is purely their choice to be fighting.

If there was a draft, if they came into people's homes, came into your home, and said, "we're taking your child and sending him to fight the war" you'd have a lot more interest in why we're fighting, and whether the cause was just and the implementation done right.

A draft, especially if there were no deferments or special favors (like influential peoples' kids getting cush jobs or stateside reserve duty) would focus the nation on the real reasons, justifications and potential outcomes for the war. It would end it almost immediately, followed by impeachment or criminal charges being brought up against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and probably many others.

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by Steve L

...followed by impeachment or criminal charges being brought up against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and probably many others.

You're such a moderate.

[Steve L]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

You're such a moderate.

You don't have to be a liberal to understand what Bush has done to this country.

And you don't have to blindly support him just because you are a conservative.

BTW, your reply to my earlier post was very well stated.

...Not as naive as you'd think, and a far more attainable goal than peace in Israel. While there is a great deal of animosity between the Sunnis and Shia, and there are definitely radical elements on both sides, the vitriol pales in comparison with the genocidal fanaticism and anti-Semitism which permeates even the so-called mainstream "Palestinian" mindset.

One thing that might get the Sunnis and Shiites working together would be a commom enemy. If the radicals on both sides decide it is their best interest to team up to fight the west (or the US more speciically) they could pose a formidable threat. I could see them deciding to settle their differences after they've acheived a common goal.

The west's treatment of the middle east throughout history has surely left a very bitter taste with many from that region.

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by Steve L

You don't have to be a liberal to understand what Bush has done to this country.

And you don't have to blindly support him just because you are a conservative.

It's fine to disagree with the President. It's fine to call him inept. If you think he's the worst president in our history, more power to you.

But to call him a criminal? That's pure DailyKos lunacy.

Technically, to call him a criminal would, in effect, condemn United States military leadership. If you want to drag Bush and Cheney before the Hague, then General Petreaus would be next up on the docket. Do you really think this appropriate, warranted, or justified?

One thing that might get the Sunnis and Shiites working together would be a commom enemy. If the radicals on both sides decide it is their best interest to team up to fight the west (or the US more speciically) they could pose a formidable threat. I could see them deciding to settle their differences after they've acheived a common goal.

When you refer to "the Sunnis and Shiites" are you referring to the Iraqi Sunnis and Shia, or the broader Sunni and Shia populations of Islam?

The west's treatment of the middle east throughout history has surely left a very bitter taste with many from that region.

It's a two-way street. Rembember, Istanbul was once Constantinople.

[Bryan]

Success for whom?

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you have to do is stop digging.

[biguglygoalie]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

You're such a moderate.

aah, to be so far right the moderates are considered liberals...

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by biguglygoalie

aah, to be so far right the moderates are considered liberals...

Advocating an indictment of the American President for war crimes is neither a moderate nor liberal position. It is pure, unadulterated lunacy.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

Advocating an indictment of the American President for war crimes is neither a moderate nor liberal position. It is pure, unadulterated lunacy.

By definition, he IS a war criminal though. His time will come.

[azdave]

He will never be charged nor tried. No one here has the balls.

Since this is all about Iraq and how there are more schools, water supply,etc: I would agree but only in certain areas. There are parts of the country that have no services. If our exit strategy is to have the Iraqi government in position to fend for themselves, I have bad news, we are never, ever leaving. This war was sold on the terrorist platform and yet nBin Laden still runs free and making DVDs to taunit us. Sad, 9-11 was his doing not Saddam's.

[Timberwoof]

Originally Posted by biguglygoalie

we sure showed those iraqis for what some saudis did...

Corrected.

Most of the hijackers were Saudi Arabian. But it wasn't done by "the" Saudis. Don't blame a country for what some of its people did.

Originally Posted by Steve L

One thing that might get the Sunnis and Shiites working together would be a commom enemy.

They used to have one. Only the US got rid of him.

Originally Posted by Bryan

By definition, he IS a war criminal though. His time will come.

Watch the polls closely during the upcoming Presidential election. Watch them especially in any state where there has been a controversy about Diebold electronic voting machines. Correlate those polls with actual election results. And pay very close attention to the timing of any national emergency that may occur right around the time of the elections this fall. Bush (or whoever) had better be very, very careful about what he stages before the election. Any nefarious plan may backfire, as it did in Spain. We could only hope that any such plan would end up with the perpetrators in jail, whoever they are.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by Timberwoof

Watch the polls closely during the upcoming Presidential election. Watch them especially in any state where there has been a controversy about Diebold electronic voting machines. Correlate those polls with actual election results. And pay very close attention to the timing of any national emergency that may occur right around the time of the elections this fall. Bush (or whoever) had better be very, very careful about what he stages before the election. Any nefarious plan may backfire, as it did in Spain. We could only hope that any such plan would end up with the perpetrators in jail, whoever they are

martial law will give president Bush official dictatorship? You sound like and conspiracy theorist.

The only thing that is good with Bush is that he is an texan and they frequently gives their criminals to death as a punishment.

[Alec M]

Originally Posted by Timberwoof

Watch the polls closely during the upcoming Presidential election. Watch them especially in any state where there has been a controversy about Diebold electronic voting machines. Correlate those polls with actual election results. And pay very close attention to the timing of any national emergency that may occur right around the time of the elections this fall. Bush (or whoever) had better be very, very careful about what he stages before the election. Any nefarious plan may backfire, as it did in Spain. We could only hope that any such plan would end up with the perpetrators in jail, whoever they are.

I remember hearing all of this stuff during your last election. Funny how that all worked out.

How, exactly, is Bush a war criminal again?

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by Alec M

I remember hearing all of this stuff during your last election. Funny how that all worked out.

How, exactly, is Bush a war criminal again?

I guess that you are joking?

Bush deliberately lied Congress and the American public about the reasons for invading Iraq.

Bush conducted warrantless electronic surveillance of American citizens.

Bush violated the Geneva Convention and US Anti-Torture Laws by approving the torture of prisoners of war.

Bush violated International Law and US law by invading a sovereign country for illegal purposes.

Bush undermined the Legislature's ability to pass laws through the excessive use of signing statements.

Bush undermined the Legislature's ability to conduct oversight through the excessive use of Executive Privilege and the State Secrets act.

Bush illegally used government funds for domestic political propaganda related to the administration's Medicare package, paying commentator Armstrong Williams, etc.

[Lars]

I think we need more jam in Iraq and better arguments in here.
The end.

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by Timberwoof

Oh noes! New World Order!

Where do the Freemasons and Illuminati come in? Are you seeing something I'm not? Are the tanks already rumbling outside the gates of San Francisco?

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

Bush deliberately lied Congress and the American public about the reasons for invading Iraq.

Prove it.

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

blah blah blah

Last time I checked, warrentless wiretapping isn't a war crime. If you want to debate it's constitutionality, fine, but it's not Buchenwald.

And signing statements are within the President's constitutional authority. It's called checks and balances.

Originally Posted by Lars

I think we need more jam in Iraq...

Jayash al-Mahdi?