Success in Iraq?

[azdave]

If it comes down to an actual debate Obama or Hilary will kick the crap out of McCain. One of the kids down the street did a story on McCain. I asked what was the best thing he did and this kid said "oh, he was a prisoner of war" There you go.
All 3 of you Bush fans think McCain will win but I seriously doubt our country is that stupid to continue this destructive path. If they do elect McCain I am going to need some advice on moving to Canada.

[digitaljohn]

Originally Posted by azdave

If it comes down to an actual debate Obama or Hilary will kick the crap out of McCain. One of the kids down the street did a story on McCain. I asked what was the best thing he did and this kid said "oh, he was a prisoner of war" There you go.
All 3 of you Bush fans think McCain will win but I seriously doubt our country is that stupid to continue this destructive path. If they do elect McCain I am going to need some advice on moving to Canada.

I agree. Nothing against McCain, because I know almost nothing about him, but I think any republican candidate would be screwed in the next election.

[Arctother]

Sucess in Iraq will be the establishment of a stable domestic government, which does not need support from any outside goverment to prop itself up.

As far as I can see, the earliest this will occur is about 10 to 20 years after the withdrawal of American troops, following a vicious civil war which will leave three nations - one Shiite, one Sunni, one Kurd.

All we are doing between now and then is propping up puppets and enriching certain firms.

Has certain parrallels to what we did in Vietnam - propping up puppets and enriching certain firms. Of course, it was 3 not 20 years after we left that the tanks rolled into Saigon, but hey.

Note that leaving the adjective Democratic out of the first sentence was not an oversight. Excepting Turkey (which is in any case not Arab), I see precious little evidence that an Arab democratic government can be stable.

Of course, by Democratic, I use western definitions of that term - under which China is not a democracy, etc.

-Arc

[sloth2946]

You guys are underestimating McCain, and over stating how he will not be a departure of the Bush administration.

He was a prisoner of war, but also a child or privilege who chose to serve, and sacrificed a significant chunk of his life for our country.

Then, he has served faithfully and without scandal as far as I can see since 1982, all the while working on both sides of the aisle.

Now ask yourselves...what have Hillary and Obama done? The answer is nothing. So I'd take a guy who knows what it is live to survive in a pressurized situation than two twits who have no experience in government nor any other facet of the job.

Sure putting McCain in there might continue the debacle in Iraq, but if you think that either Hillary or Obama will simply cut and run...you're crazy. And if you think putting Hillary or Obama in the WH will turn our economy around...you're crazy too.

Nothing good can come from a purely Democratic controlled government right now. The Dems in Congress are downright awful. They are do nothings who have no clue. Putting Hillary or Obama in the WH will assure that awful bills get passed and awful policy happens.

I'll take the gridlock of a smart Republican in the WH any day.

PS: You know when Obama/Clinton would begin withdrawing troops from Iraq???? Here's a hint: right before the 2012 election. So we're committed for another 4 years minimum regardless of who is in office.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by sloth2946

PS: You know when Obama/Clinton would begin withdrawing troops from Iraq???? Here's a hint: right before the 2012 election. So we're committed for another 4 years minimum regardless of who is in office.

Isnt that better then NEVER go out? As long as mcCain is in office your economi will keep going done the toilet and he will not even try to leave Iraq.

[sloth2946]

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

Isnt that better then NEVER go out? As long as mcCain is in office your economi will keep going done the toilet and he will not even try to leave Iraq.

I disagree greatly. The man is no fool. You'll just have to trust me is all I can say.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by sloth2946

I disagree greatly. The man is no fool. You'll just have to trust me is all I can say.

USA and the world cant afford another big corporation puppet.

Cheney is no fool either

[azdave]

Sloth what are you talking about?? McCain has been my senator for 12 years and I can't come up with one thing the guy has done. He was a prisoner of war, so, if this is the criteria for becoming president of the US as far as I can tell he would be the only one. I admire his courage and his service to our country but being a prisoner of war has absolutely nothing to do with running a country, especially one as large as the US. Take off the Republican glasses and realize no one is underestimating the guy if anything they are overestimating him. He is a disappoint to almost every Republican I know. Sure there will be those on the right that will vote for him since they have no other choice but debate with either Hilary or Obama will be a total blowout. Plus he is like 74 years old. Would you let him borrow your car? NO but you would vote for him to lead our country.

[Bones343]

Originally Posted by azdave

He was a prisoner of war, so.

He was a prisoner of war, so??? So? That's it. Like, big deal, who cares if he spent over half a decade of his life in isolation and confinement, being tortured to the point of rendering him permanently disabled?

Plus he is like 74 years old. Would you let him borrow your car? NO but you would vote for him to lead our country.

What in thee hell does not wanting to let someone drive your car have to do with being president. As far as I know, as president, you don't have to drive a car. I bet FDR had a hell of a time driving a car...

Swedish Goalie, do you live in Sweden or the US?

[azdave]

So, my point is that being a prisoner of war has NOTHING to do with qualifying you to become president. I STATED I admire his courage and his dedication to our country but again that has nothing to do with leading our country. As far as the car thing, a little joke but obviously not taken that way. Here again, he will have his finger on the nuclear button but I wouldn't let the guy borrow my car. Get it? McCain could be the greatest guy on the planet but he is all over the place when it comes to issues. First he has us for 100 years in Iraq and now he has stated we will be out by 2013. Why, how. Where does he come up with 2013? Is that a mission accomplished date or is that where he figures enough is enough and time to bail? The economy, pretty pressing from what I can see, he has already stated he doesn't know much about that stuff. Yep that's the guy I want making financial decisions for the USA. If you are going to debate this at least lets get on topic and not come up with he was a prisoner of war as his qualification to become leader of the greatest country in the world.

[sloth2946]

Originally Posted by azdave

Sloth what are you talking about?? McCain has been my senator for 12 years and I can't come up with one thing the guy has done. He was a prisoner of war, so, if this is the criteria for becoming president of the US as far as I can tell he would be the only one. I admire his courage and his service to our country but being a prisoner of war has absolutely nothing to do with running a country, especially one as large as the US. Take off the Republican glasses and realize no one is underestimating the guy if anything they are overestimating him. He is a disappoint to almost every Republican I know. Sure there will be those on the right that will vote for him since they have no other choice but debate with either Hilary or Obama will be a total blowout. Plus he is like 74 years old. Would you let him borrow your car? NO but you would vote for him to lead our country.

Dave...I am far from a republican. I am also far from a democrat. I am what we used call in college when it came to frat pledging, a MFing Independent.

The fact that he is considered a disappointment to much of the far right, is a good thing! It should be embraced because they are the lunatic fringe of the right. But whether or not he has been a lead horse in any particular sweeping legislation is immaterial. However, like the laws or not, he did get the McCain-Feingold pushed through, which whether you like it or not was an attempt at cleaning up politics despite the many loopholes that it has that have caused major issues and bit him in the arse.

But the fact remains is this....the guy has 26 years of government service in Congress. Probably 2x that of Hillary and Obama combined. Also...didn't he co-author an anti-torture bill in Congress that was either vetoed or died???? And wasn't that co-authored, much like McCain-Feingold, with a Democrat?

He's simply a moderate who wont think of things in black and white, left or right, red or blue. And that is good! But he's smart enough to know when to work with the other party and when to tell his own party, as well as the opposition to shut the F up.

Sure he's old...who cares? FDR had polio! I forget...how many terms did he serve? Reagan was developing Alzheimer's during his 2nd campaign....that didn't stop him from being effective.

Don't be myopic. Don't be partisan. Realize that Hillary and Barack are simply not qualified to run a McDonalds, yet McCain is a grad of Anapolis and was a Captain in the USN, a man who has led men as an officer.

Sorry. I'll vote for him.

PS: Here's a great quote from McCain when he was running for Congress the first time and was called a carpetbagger:

Listen, pal. I spent 22 years in the Navy. My father was in the Navy. My grandfather was in the Navy. We in the military service tend to move a lot. We have to live in all parts of the country, all parts of the world. I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the First District of Arizona, but I was doing other things. As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi.[59][73]

Priceless...and yes that is the type of attitude I want from my next POTUS. To tell people when they are being petty and stupid that they are an idiot.

[azdave]

Sloth he is a Senator not a Congressman. Secondly, if you look at the bills he has tried to pass they are pretty much out there. His tie into Kennedy where he basically
allowed all illegals to stay was a joke. I am a Democrat but Teddy is way out of the loop and I doubt anyone really takes his seriously anymore. Border security should have been McCain's number one priority especially representing AZ. but no, not even close. Now of course since he is running for president he is telling us how important that is. He began his Senate run in 1987 and I believe there was an immigration problem then, so in 21 years he has done NOTHING TO FIX IT. Check google for his greatest accomplishments and you come up with he is a Reagan foot soldier He voted for campaign finance reform, how did that work out He took over for Barry Goldwater when he retired He was a prisoner of war He did marry out of his league Okay I have to give him that one. So aside from walking into political office as another old dude retired I just don't see what you are all excited about. BTW I am not ripping on McCain because he is a Republican, if there was a really quality Republican running I would have to consider that person in the general election but seriously McCain is not the guy to get this country back on its feet and out of Iraq.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by Bones343

Swedish Goalie, do you live in Sweden or the US?

I live in southern parts of Sweden. Why do you wonder?

[sloth2946]

Originally Posted by azdave

Sloth he is a Senator not a Congressman. Secondly, if you look at the bills he has tried to pass they are pretty much out there. His tie into Kennedy where he basically
allowed all illegals to stay was a joke. I am a Democrat but Teddy is way out of the loop and I doubt anyone really takes his seriously anymore. Border security should have been McCain's number one priority especially representing AZ. but no, not even close. Now of course since he is running for president he is telling us how important that is. He began his Senate run in 1987 and I believe there was an immigration problem then, so in 21 years he has done NOTHING TO FIX IT. Check google for his greatest accomplishments and you come up with he is a Reagan foot soldier He voted for campaign finance reform, how did that work out He took over for Barry Goldwater when he retired He was a prisoner of war He did marry out of his league Okay I have to give him that one. So aside from walking into political office as another old dude retired I just don't see what you are all excited about. BTW I am not ripping on McCain because he is a Republican, if there was a really quality Republican running I would have to consider that person in the general election but seriously McCain is not the guy to get this country back on its feet and out of Iraq.

McCain originally served in the House and then became a Senator. You'd think one of his constituents would know that!

The guy's not perfect. Don't get me wrong. But what have the other two done??? And I don't even know why I am mentioning Hillary because she is done....so what has Obama done other than rhetoric about change? Didn't he campaign on that to get into the Senate??? What has he changed? What has Pelosi changed or the Democratic Senate for that matter?

I for one happen to agree with McCain on illegals. Because if you don't like the current hike in prices of food and other goods and services, what do you think they will become after we kick that labor force out? Don't be so short sighted on that issue.

Again...the guy's not perfect and probably a one termer, but he is better than the alternative. None of them will get us out of Iraq, but I can guarantee you that Barack will further bankrupt this country.

[Bones343]

Originally Posted by azdave

Sloth he is a Senator not a Congressman. Secondly, if you look at the bills he has tried to pass they are pretty much out there. His tie into Kennedy where he basically
allowed all illegals to stay was a joke. I am a Democrat but Teddy is way out of the loop and I doubt anyone really takes his seriously anymore. Border security should have been McCain's number one priority especially representing AZ. but no, not even close. Now of course since he is running for president he is telling us how important that is. He began his Senate run in 1987 and I believe there was an immigration problem then, so in 21 years he has done NOTHING TO FIX IT. Check google for his greatest accomplishments and you come up with he is a Reagan foot soldier He voted for campaign finance reform, how did that work out He took over for Barry Goldwater when he retired He was a prisoner of war He did marry out of his league Okay I have to give him that one. So aside from walking into political office as another old dude retired I just don't see what you are all excited about. BTW I am not ripping on McCain because he is a Republican, if there was a really quality Republican running I would have to consider that person in the general election but seriously McCain is not the guy to get this country back on its feet and out of Iraq.

You post like he is not suppose to be a politician. It is impossible to please everyone, on every issue.

As for Iraq, it is clear that many people have, or rather want to have a different agenda when it comes to that country. The problem is, most people don't understand what is actually going on in the country, yet they feel they know what we should do over there.

And SwedishGoalie, I was asking because you post as if you are an informed, voting citizen of the United States, which I didn't think you were, which is why I asked. Thats all.