Guy-Paul Morin
Robert Baltovich
Steven Truscott
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh
David Milgaard
Those are but a few individuals that have been wrongfully convicted in Canada, where the conviction was overturned. You can't overturn the conviction after the death penalty.
Unfortunately, what a lot of those cases bring to light is that when somebody is remotely identified as a strong suspect, police tends to drop any investigation of anybody else, and work to make their case stronger against the one suspect.
Guy-Paul Morin
Robert Baltovich
Steven Truscott
William Mullins-Johnson
Romeo Phillion
Kyle Unger
Erin Walsh
David Milgaard
Those are but a few individuals that have been wrongfully convicted in Canada, where the conviction was overturned. You can't overturn the conviction after the death penalty.
Unfortunately, what a lot of those cases bring to light is that when somebody is remotely identified as a strong suspect, police tends to drop any investigation of anybody else, and work to make their case stronger against the one suspect.
That's Canada. It's a different legal process and if I am correct, it is more along the lines of a Napoleanic code where the accused has to prove their innocence, where in the States it is the state that must prove guilt.
With that said...will there be people wrongly convicted??? Sure. But the appeals process here in the states does a decent job of rooting out those issues, as well as our laws on evidence, discovery and procedure.
That's Canada. It's a different legal process and if I am correct, it is more along the lines of a Napoleanic code where the accused has to prove their innocence, where in the States it is the state that must prove guilt.
With that said...will there be people wrongly convicted??? Sure. But the appeals process here in the states does a decent job of rooting out those issues, as well as our laws on evidence, discovery and procedure.
Napoleanic code is used only in Quebec, and fir civil matters. Murder,m rape, etc are Federal offenses.
People are going to be wrongfully convicted. The appeals process does not always work. And the appeals process for death penalty cases in the US is more expensive than keeping the person in jail for life. So other than revenge, wht's the point?
Napoleanic code is used only in Quebec, and fir civil matters. Murder,m rape, etc are Federal offenses.
People are going to be wrongfully convicted. The appeals process does not always work. And the appeals process for death penalty cases in the US is more expensive than keeping the person in jail for life. So other than revenge, wht's the point?
Look, if you're expecting the process to work perfectly every time, then you don't live in this world. People screw up. People have agendas. It happens. But by and large, what percentage of criminals are wrongfully convicted?
A very, very, small percentage. Doesn't make it right, but that is unfortunately the breaks and by that logic we shouldn't have any legal system or penitentiary system because the system isn't perfect and people can be convicted wrongfully.
But does the person who spends their life in prison lose any more for being wrongfully convicted? PS: That person gets as many appeals as the death row inmate, so the cost is the same.
I also presented an opportunity for convicted to make amends to mankind for their action rather than being ass raped in prison for 30-40+ years....volunteer for experimental medical treatment for the advances of science.
I've stated it before and will so again, that if you deprive someone of their Constitutional rights in this country, you should expect that you are deprived of your own in an equal manner and considering the mental and psychological damage that happens to people who are abused/raped/victimized as a child and how it cascades into every facet of their life from that point forward, I'd say they have essentially killed that person as they can mostly never make a full recovery without the scars that the abuse has done to them. I wonder what the suicide rate is amongst those who were victimized as children...that should be a telling sign as to how badly this affects them and how putting the perpetrator to death is an equal and fair punishment.
I stand by republicans on most issues, but the death penalty is one i have come to question. No doubt, rapists are the scum of the earth, but it doesn't seem to me that we have the right to take someone else's life (even for a convicted murderer)
Hopefully this is a massive typo, because it is absolutely incorrect................
What is the breakout? I too was under the impression that both death row and regular joes had the same amount of appeals at their disposal but death row guys used it. I always kind of questioned that but never really delved into it. So a source would be awesome Thumper. I purposefully did not bring that up in this thread as I was not sure on it. So please send me to a good source. Thanks.
What is the breakout? I too was under the impression that both death row and regular joes had the same amount of appeals at their disposal but death row guys used it.
This primarily deals with the costs associated with Death Penalty appeals vs. Life.
As far as the number of appeals allowed, where the District Attorney has announced a 'Death Penalty' case, the trial is automatically bifurcated into guilt and penalty phases. So you are automatically starting out with one more trial than with a Life in Prison case, and more chances for appeal.
It is also not a question of the number of appeals at your disposal, but the number of appeals that are granted.
For obvious reasons higher and higher appeals courts are MUCH more likely to grant an appeal to a Death Penalty case. Plus every Death Penalty case is followed by an automatic appeal, not so with Life.
My main point of contention is when it is stated that the cost of the appeals process for each penalty is equal. That is just not true, and it is primarily due to the number and length of appeals that are granted for a Death Penalty case.
This primarily deals with the costs associated with Death Penalty appeals vs. Life.
As far as the number of appeals allowed, where the District Attorney has announced a 'Death Penalty' case, the trial is automatically bifurcated into guilt and penalty phases. So you are automatically starting out with one more trial than with a Life in Prison case, and more chances for appeal.
It is also not a question of the number of appeals at your disposal, but the number of appeals that are granted.
For obvious reasons higher and higher appeals courts are MUCH more likely to grant an appeal to a Death Penalty case. Plus every Death Penalty case is followed by an automatic appeal, not so with Life.
My main point of contention is when it is stated that the cost of the appeals process for each penalty is equal. That is just not true, and it is primarily due to the number and length of appeals that are granted for a Death Penalty case.
While in practice your information may be true, but in reality, it isn't because it is a matter of how many appeals are granted, which is at the discretion of the courts so it is a problem that isn't necessarily part of the system as per law or rules, rather through the fact that the courts are lenient in terms of granting appeals for the slightest little thing simply because of the sentence. So the cost is self imposed because of the courts.
A simple solution is to limit the number of appeals, or at a minimum have the courts use more discretion in allowing the appeals to be heard when much of the time it is a matter of nitpicking in order to spare the condemned of their full sentence or simply lighten it.
For me, new pertinent evidence to be submitted is a great example of a situation where an appeal must be heard, or complete incompetence by an attorney/legal representation, or suppressed evidence. There are more things I could think of but for the sake of brevity(too late) I wont go further as I am sure you agree with me and get my point.
Last edited by sloth2946 : 06-27-2008 at 07:50 AM.
Thumper - That did not say that lifers have less appeals though. It just states that they do not use them persay and that death penalty inmates get an auto appeal.
If I read that right Lifers are entitled to the same amount of appeals and such HOWEVER they are granted less and/or not used as much since lifers do not have death coming...
Personally I'm all for instituting the Mare of Steel punishment. Crude and painful yes, but less painful than being a contestant on a Japanese game show.
Personally I'm all for instituting the Mare of Steel punishment. Crude and painful yes, but less painful than being a contestant on a Japanese game show.
Thumper - That did not say that lifers have less appeals though.
You need to understand that there is no set number of appeals. It depends on a number of factors: How many courts are 'superior' to the court that made the contested decision, was it originally tried in Federal or State court, and each State has different appeals processes.
The ONLY way to judge it is on how many appeals are granted which is significantly skewed towards Death Penalty cases.
You need to understand that there is no set number of appeals. It depends on a number of factors: How many courts are 'superior' to the court that made the contested decision, was it originally tried in Federal or State court, and each State has different appeals processes.
The ONLY way to judge it is on how many appeals are granted which is significantly skewed towards Death Penalty cases.
Then honestly you could not argue about costs since the same chance is available for both.
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