Something about Religion (come on everbody express your opinion!!!)

[Ringy]

I think relatively unchanged would be a better choice of words. Simply because I think it would be nigh impossible for a document to remain the same word for word for so long. Doesn't make the Torah any less spiritual, but merely subject to human change.

[wjmurray]

Originally Posted by cdnredraider

Have you ever checked out the procedure that was required for the copying of the Torah? It is more rigorous than about any copying method we have today. I think we can be pretty certain that the Torah is unchanged for much longer than 2000 years.

What we can be certain of is that the Torah is a fairy tale supposedly written 2000 years before the world was created. It's a pile of garbage that does not deserve consideration as either history or a valid tool for people to believe or live their lives by in modern time when people should know better than to beleive or even worry about outdated tripe written by extremely foolish people.

[kevinsane]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

What we can be certain of is that the Torah is a fairy tale supposedly written 2000 years before the world was created. It's a pile of garbage that does not deserve consideration as either history or a valid tool for people to believe or live their lives by in modern time when people should know better than to beleive or even worry about outdated tripe written by extremely foolish people.

You are entitled to an opinion. You need not, though, express it in this fashion. "Garbage" and "tripe" to you may be a template for life to other people, and you need to show tolerance and acceptance of that, otherwise it is YOU who looks like the zealot.

[wjmurray]

I have neither tolerance nor respect for religion or religious beliefs and accept them as nothing more than organized ignorance. They are based upon and breed ignorance and that is not worthy of acceptance or tolerance in modern society.

[Kipper]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

I have neither tolerance nor respect for religion or religious beliefs and accept them as nothing more than organized ignorance. They are based upon and breed ignorance and that is not worthy of acceptance or tolerance in modern society.

I'd just like to point out that this guy has done a lot better of a job at doing what the people on pages before have been attempting to say. I would also like to point out that, while disagreeing with someone is perfectly fine, that is different from calling them ignorant. It makes the assumption that they have not come to their conclusion in a reasonable or logical manner. Isn't making an assumption without basis a rather textbook incidence of ignorance? Forgive me if I'm prattling, I just can only take so much inconsiderate religion-bashing without becoming as animated as I am now.

[kevinsane]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

I have neither tolerance nor respect for religion or religious beliefs and accept them as nothing more than organized ignorance. They are based upon and breed ignorance and that is not worthy of acceptance or tolerance in modern society.

Again, your opinion. If you cannot be polite to those who disagree, you will be absent from the discussion. Period.

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

I have neither tolerance nor respect for religion or religious beliefs and accept them as nothing more than organized ignorance. They are based upon and breed ignorance and that is not worthy of acceptance or tolerance in modern society.

Regardless of whether or not you choose to believe, the impact of religion and spirituality on all facets of human history, modern society, and current events is undeniable.

As for your beliefs, they are just as close-minded and ignorant as those of the fundamentalists you denounce.

[Timberwoof]

Bible Codes Debunked in Statistical Science

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[RCS]

Any book of history is based upon first hand accounts of the events.

Actually, quite a few are based on people's interpretation and perspective of events, which change over time. Also, a lot of them are based on guesses and theories, since not a single one of us was around a hundred, let alone a thousand or a million years ago.

rather than simply accepting Thor and Zeus as the answer we actually used science to understand why these things really happened.

And we are now better off in what fashion? I'll agree science has done a lot of wonderful things, but simple understanding of how something happens does not always answer the question of why something happens. And I think a lot of people put way too much concern into figuring out both sometimes.

The facts are that if you are going to make the assertion that there is a god, you have to provide evidence to back up your supposition

Why? While I don't agree with you, I also don't feel it's my duty to try provide you evidence of anything. I'm not pressing my beliefs on you, nor am I trying to (rather rudely) invalidate all your points with repetitive arguments. The only fact here really is that you feel I need to supply you with some sort of irrefutable evidence, which I most certainly do not. You're free to your thoughts and beliefs. You don't have to like mine. But from your comments, you seem to think people who have some sort of faith or beliefs are idiots, which I'd wager a few bucks (Canadian or US, take your pick) is far from true.

Religion, on the other hand collapses as evidence proves it wrong.

Religions of the world: numbers of adherents; growth rates

As of the year 2000, approximately 2% of the world didn't have some sort of religion.

As of 2001, approximately 0.4% of the United Stats populace was Atheist, which has grown (from the sources I can find) to 1.6% by 2007:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

I think "collapse" is probably not a valid adjective to use for religion, no matter it's form, seeing as how ~98% of the population of the world has some form of belief.

He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!

And this is exactly why I rarely go to church and am not a fan of organized religion. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this type of crap and opinion is what comes from the human input to religion, not the basis of religion itself. Not that this proves the existence or non-existence of any deity, but I think is the perfect example of exactly WHY we're in for a rough ride if we put our faith in humanity itself.

the fear of believers and some form of blackmail by the priesthood in order to get believers to keep coming back and feeding the coffers.

Again, not something I do or believe others should do to this sort of extreme. I fear nothing. In all honesty, I quite enjoy my life and the belief that there's something better for me afterwards. If not, again, I didn't miss a thing.

they all rely upon the exact same thing

All of them? Every single one of them? I'm reasonably sure this statement is pretty false.

My personal bottom line in all this is really, truly, I don't care. Evolution can be exact as it's stated. Wonderful. Everything else can be the polar opposite of what I believe. Fabulous. None of it changes my life one bit. It neither makes me a perfect nor a terrible person. I have personal beliefs, I have personal morals. I'm happy. Good enough for me.

[wjmurray]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

Regardless of whether or not you choose to believe, the impact of religion and spirituality on all facets of human history, modern society, and current events is undeniable.

As for your beliefs, they are just as close-minded and ignorant as those of the fundamentalists you denounce.

No, the fact is that being open minded is the very reason that I do not believe in religion or any other fairy tales.

It is not being closed minded to realize that belief systems that tell people that the earth is only 6,000 years old, it's OK to stone people for their sexuality or any other reason, that faith must take precedence over proven facts and other silliness should not be given the slightest bit of consideration. It does not require faith or belief to know that god does not exist and is nothing more than a poorly plagiarized version of other stories told by civilizations that preceeded the writers of the current versions of these deities.

The impact of religious beliefs is nothing to crow about. The Dark Ages were caused by religion. Suppression of scientific knowledge and lack of advancement by humanity was caused by the faithful for many generations. The planes hitting the twin towers were a result of religious zealotry. The list of the harm of religion is almost infinite while the real benefits are non-existent. The truth be told, we have made it to where we are as a race, both technologically and as human beings, in spite of religion, not because of it.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

It is not being closed minded to realize that belief systems that tell people that the earth is only 6,000 years old,

That the beliefs of religios fundaentalism, the same as what Hamas and Al-qaida is except that they like thee Quran.

Originally Posted by wjmurray

The planes hitting the twin towers were a result of religious zealotry.

9/11 had nothing to do with religion it was all about politics The acts of 9/11 isnt someting the "islam world" supports. They hate bin Ladin almost as much as they hate bush.

[Swedish goalie]

if god can use his omnipresence to make a change in YOUR life. Why doesn't he do it at least for the kids in third world countries that can't get a *SNIP* meal and die because of it? I never see religious people talk about this. What are your thoughts on this? Why would God help someone who lives a regular life in a regular apartment with a regular job who has 3 meals a day, and then completely forget about the millions of kids that live in shacks (if there lucky and not livin in the streets) with parents who probably have aids and virtually no income. So not only can the parents not eat, niether can the kids who will then grow up and keep the cycle going

can you please give me a reason as to why god couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child?

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by wjmurray

The Dark Ages were caused by religion.

That's a vastly oversimplistic sentiment. The ancient texts of the Greeks were conserved by the monks during the Dark Ages, diligently transcribing the works of the great doctors and philosophers in the abbeys while the outside world plunged into ignorance. The Catholic Church is directly responsible for the preservation of the works of Aristotle and Plato.

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

9/11 had nothing to do with religion it was all about politics

Stop making authoritative statements on concepts you have absolutely no grasp of.

The acts of 9/11 isnt someting the "islam world" supports. They hate bin Ladin almost as much as they hate bush.

This shopkeep would beg to differ.



These fellows would, also.


Allahu Akbar, Swede.

[Swedish goalie]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

That's a vastly oversimplistic sentiment. The ancient texts of the Greeks were conserved by the monks during the Dark Ages, diligently transcribing the works of the great doctors and philosophers in the abbeys while the outside world plunged into ignorance. The Catholic Church is directly responsible for the preservation of the works of Aristotle and Plato.


Stop making authoritative statements on concepts you have absolutely no grasp of.



This shopkeep would beg to differ.



These fellows would, also.


Allahu Akbar, Swede.

As usual you are an complete idiot and talks about stuff that you have no idea what it is about.

Read this! 90 millions musmlis made a survey and YES they are they same people as we believe or not, nomatter what Faux news wants you to believe

Originally Posted by http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0517/p12s01-wogi.html

Since the momentous events of Sept. 11, 2001, countless news stories, TV commentaries, and books have speculated on the causes of terrorism, the attitudes of Muslims, and a purported clash of civilizations between Islamic societies and the West.

What has not been available is any reliable measure of the viewpoints of ordinary Muslims, who constitute 20 percent of the global population.

That is no longer the case.

What do a billion Muslims really think? | csmonitor.com

BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE

[wjmurray]

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

That the beliefs of religios fundaentalism, the same as what Hamas and Al-qaida is except that they like thee Quran. .

True, but even more liberal xtians refuse to give up creationism and continue to worship their god of the gaps, they just change their story when the evidence proves the error of their religious texts. Unfortunately for them, their god continues to live in a gap that gets smaller for him every day through the "revelations that science provides. It is inconceivable that people refuse to let go of their "perfect god" even after science proves that the "knowledge" of the bible is nothing more than ancient superstitious nonsense.

Originally Posted by Swedish goalie

9/11 had nothing to do with religion it was all about politics The acts of 9/11 isnt someting the "islam world" supports. They hate bin Ladin almost as much as they hate bush.

Regardless, religion makes people more pliable to the idea of killing themselves in the name of these "causes". Without the promise of those 72 virgins and martyrdom it is much more difficult to get a rational person who actual values life rather than worshipping in a cult of death to give up their one and only life they will ever have. Politics is the reason, but religion is the tool used by those in charge to get people to go along with their plans.