Something about Religion (come on everbody express your opinion!!!)

[Bones343]

Originally Posted by moving target

Christianity:

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat fruit from a magical tree...

People get mad when you put it like that.....

[Stryker908]

[Swedish goalie]

Some qeustions for intelligent Christians

most christians believes that God heals people through miracles everyday. So why doesnt God heal amputees or other visible decises(s)?

Why does a loving god demand so any innocent peoples lives in the bible?

Why didnt any of Jesus miracles in the bible leave any evidence behind?

[jbgd825]

In the words of Homer Simpson, "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself could not eat it?"

[Stryker908]

Originally Posted by jbgd825

In the words of Homer Simpson, "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself could not eat it?"

LMAO ... Ahhh I love that show!

[moving target]

[finmin]

Arent you cool bashing religion... what do you get out of this?
Like some atheists dont like christians trying to convert them to christianity, some christians dont like atheists trying to convert them to atheism... cant you just let it be?

[Bones343]

Who is bashing religion?

Religion is a great thing for some people. But believing in God isn't much different than believing in Santa Claus. You truely think they are real, until you hit a certain age.

[soulpatch]

Originally Posted by finmin

Arent you cool bashing religion... what do you get out of this?
Like some atheists dont like christians trying to convert them to christianity, some christians dont like atheists trying to convert them to atheism... cant you just let it be?

and yet there are christain based laws forced down people's throats everyday........


gay marriage anyone????

[finmin]

And that is your opinion... but if you cant prove you are right and you know by saying what you are saying you offend alot of people, why say it?
I think some you are just hopping the atheist bandwagon and trying to be cool...

[soulpatch]

Originally Posted by finmin

And that is your opinion... but if you cant prove you are right and you know by saying what you are saying you offend alot of people, why say it?
I think some you are just hopping the atheist bandwagon and trying to be cool...

I was not involved too much in this thread so think of that as you will. Nor was I bashing.

However to state thatthe gay marriage law being based on religion is my opinion is down right stupid. Are you that blind? Seriously?

Not to mention you came into a thread that has STATE YOUR OPINION in the damn title. Have thin skin or are easily offended then stay out. Perhaps instead of questioning what others are saying you should look into the mirror and question your faith or lack of if you are so easily offended.

[Stryker908]

Originally Posted by finmin

And that is your opinion... but if you cant prove you are right and you know by saying what you are saying you offend alot of people, why say it?
I think some you are just hopping the atheist bandwagon and trying to be cool...

How's this ?

God necessarily exists;

1) Ideas are either innate (inborn or known from one's own nature), adventitious (come from outside me) or made by me.
2) Formal reality is characteristic of things.
3) Some things have more formal reality than others.
4) To exist is to be good.
5) Greater goodness or perfection therefore implies that some things have more existence than others.
6) Substances have a greater amount of formal reality than modes or accidents.
7) Infinite substances have more formal reality than finite substances.
8) Objective reality is the reality characterisic of ideas in virtue of the fact that the idea represents some realtiy.
9) Some ideas have more objective reality than others, depending on the formal reality of the things which they represent.
10)There is at least as much reality in an efficient cause as in its effect. (This is revealed by the natural light.)
11) The ideas in me are like images that may well fall short of the things from which they derive but cannot contain anything greater or more perfect. (This is revealed by the natural light.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12) If I can be sure that the objective reality of one of my ideas is so great that it isn't in me either formally or eminently and hence that I cannot be the cause of that idea, I can infer that I am not alone in the world--that there exists something else that is the cause of the idea.
13) I have the ideas of myself, of God, of angels, of animals, of physical objects and of other men like me.
14) I could have composed my ideas of animals, other men and angels. (There is a brief argument on behalf of this premise.)
15) I could have composed my ideas of physical objects without these existing. (There is an argument to show that this premise is true.)
16) There is more reality in an infinite than in a finite substance.
17) The more perfect serves as a standard to judge the less perfect.
18) I use God as the standard to judge that I am imperfect.
19) My grasp of the infinite must be prior to my grasp of the finite.
20) The idea of God is completly clear and distinct and contains more objective reality than any other idea.
21) But perhaps I am greater than I have assumed and so could be the cause of the idea of a being with all perfections.
22) The gradual increase in my knowledge shows that I am imperfect. (All of these things are revealed by the light of nature)

[finmin]

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I was not involved too much in this thread so think of that as you will. Nor was I bashing.

However to state thatthe gay marriage law being based on religion is my opinion is down right stupid. Are you that blind? Seriously?

Not to mention you came into a thread that has STATE YOUR OPINION in the damn title. Have thin skin or are easily offended then stay out. Perhaps instead of questioning what others are saying you should look into the mirror and question your faith or lack of if you are so easily offended.

That response was directed to Bones 343, and I had not even read your post when I wrote mine... I think the gay marriage law being passed on religion is stupid, and I dont think it's a good thing... These laws are made by extremist christians and shouldnt be passed as the opinion of the whole religion. religions evolve... alot of the things in Bible were written a long time ago... things were different. You dont stone you wife to dead if she commits addultery... stupid stuff like this ended up in the Bible because it was written by men...
Ok... I was a little thin skinned and didnt read the title good enough, but alot of the stuff going on in this thread weren't about stating your opinion and having a discussion but just bashing and "hating on religion"

But now we got ourselves a discussion, eh?

[Bones343]

Originally Posted by finmin

And that is your opinion... but if you cant prove you are right and you know by saying what you are saying you offend alot of people, why say it?
I think some you are just hopping the atheist bandwagon and trying to be cool...

I wasn't aware that possibly offending people in a "express your opinion" thread on religion would cause problems. That is why I said it. Because that is the title of this thread. I'm sorry you can't handle that.

And saying that I am hopping on an "atheist bandwagon to be cool" is a quite ignorant thing. I wasn't aware being atheist was cool, but if it is, well then....cool I guess. I'm also not hopping on any bandwagon. If there was any logic or reason behind believing in a god, than I might believe in one. But because I am realistic, I don't. No bandwagons involved.

I might dare say that most people are of a religion because they were raised to do so, or because they thought that is what people expected of them, ie. jumped on that bandwagon.

[Philip Maltese]

This is a good topic. Interesting to see where people fall on this issue.

I have my opinions and they're strong ones, but I tend to lean toward the logical anyway.

Here's a person's POV I can respect ....

George Carlin
On Religion

ObjectiveThought.com
12-23-5



When it comes to bull****, big-time, major league bull****, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull**** story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull**** story. Holy ****!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is ****ed up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of **** you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever **** things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a ****. Doesn't give a ****, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a ****, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to **** that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and **** up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the **** bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that ****sucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

~George Carlin