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icehockeyaf96 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008, 11:13 AM

'Horrific' scene as twister kills 4 Scouts - Weather - MSNBC.com

Timberwoof · #2 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008, 11:45 AM

Is it me, or has it already been an unusually destructive tornado season this year?

Certainly we've had an unusual number of wildfires around here, and unusually early. There was another one yesterday in Bonny Doon; I saw the smoke plume from where I work.

jaques trapp · #3 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008, 02:13 PM

"Boyscouts not prepared for tornado"

Was this intentional? Boy Scouts motto is 'Be Prepared' If i remember right

Ced

Timberwoof · #4 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008, 04:45 PM

Well, they were prepared ... as much as one can be for a tornado the size of a bowling ball[2].

Sometimes[1] I wonder about journalists. "Putting their first-aid training to use, they applied tourniquets and gauze to the injured"??? Tourniquets? Who the hell uses tourniquets any more?

That is the last thing you want to do!

("You put a tourniquet around his neck, doctor?" was a line from a novel by Larry Niven. A gold star for anyone who can identify the novel, who got the tourniquet around his neck, and why he survived anyway.

)

[1] where "Sometimes" = "Often"

[2] Yeah, Chertoff said the tornado was like a bowling ball. I didn't think a bowling ball could be that bad. Maybe he meant this one:

soulpatch · #5 (**permalink**) 06-12-2008, 07:24 PM

We had a tornado strike down around Camp Horseshow when I was down there one year. We all had to run for the mess hall as we were simply in tents. The mess hall had some cement for its foundation but was not meant to protect everyone at camp in case of a direct strike by a tornado.....

icehockeyaf96 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaques trapp

"Boyscouts not prepared for tornado"

Was this intentional? Boy Scouts motto is 'Be Prepared' If i remember right

Ced

Yes, it was intentional. From much of what I saw when I brought my son to boy scout events, many of the leaders were not prepared.

When my son joined cub scouts at 8 years old, the leaders couldn't do a good job of running the pack because they were too busy attending to their diapered toddlers to supervise the group. Their own kids did not behave well, so they would spend a lot of time disciplining them. On the first hike I went along, they let a group of 8 year old boys run rampant far from the leaders near water and holding sticks that they kept hitting each other with. When one got hurt, there was no first aid kit to even give him a band aid. They used dried leaves to soak up the blood! After that experience, I knew I could not entrust the safety of my son to these leaders so I always went with him. I eventually changed packs.

In another pack during a hike up Bear Mountain, one of the boys who was attention deficit wandered off and was missing for most of the hike. His parents did not hike the mountain with him. That reminded me of the boy last year who got lost from his pack and almost died. Search goes on for lost N.C. Boy Scout - Life - MSNBC.com

While in boy scouts, I remember the camporee at a local parkground when it rained so much I decided to take my son home, since he was getting over a cold. I was able to drive into the campgrounds with absolutely no one questioning me at 10 PM why I was there or ask for identification, visit his tent to remove his possessions with out being escorted, and take my son home with out signing him out. (I did tell one of his leaders who was very busy with a campfire activity with the whole pack of about 100 kids.) I later heard that the year before someone else did the same thing during a thunderstorm. The next morning no one knew that the boy was gone, except the parents.

During that same outing, I saw a boy being taken away after possibly getting a concussion because another had gotten annoyed with him and beaten him up. According to one of the parents supervising, "He had it coming to him". Is this what they teach in boy scouts? I mentioned all this to the troop leader but nothing was done about it.

I understand that everyone is volunteering their time, but if they cannot lead the kids in a safe, responsible manner, they should not be pack leaders. I myself helped out whenever I could, but I knew I couldn't make the time commitment, so I didn't take on the role.

soulpatch · #7 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 05:41 AM

I think it all depends on the pack you get into. My pack was almost military in fashion. We knew where to be and when. We had plently of supervision and knew where the line was so we did not cross it. It was great. Since we knew all of this we got to go on a ton of trips all over te place. We hiked the app trail for a week and a half.

While in cub scouts we also had a great set of leaders. We had one issue with a leader once. He went on his first trip and decided to bring a flask. He was immediately escorted home by the other leaders once they found out. Just the way it was in my troop.

In boy scouts us older members would go on hikes basically alone at times. We had to have at least one person 18 or older but otherwise past the age of 15 you could be on the hikes. They were great too.

Eidolon · #8 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 06:14 AM

My understanding of this particular incident was that the storm came up quickly and the adults had been watching the weather during the day, but there was no indication of severe weather until almost the last minute. Also, this was one of the few camps that didn't have a tornado shelter. Unfortunately, that may have cost 4 young men their lives more than anything.

Eidolon · #9 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timberwoof

Is it me, or has it already been an unusually destructive tornado season this year?

Certainly we've had an unusual number of wildfires around here, and unusually early. There was another one yesterday in Bonny Doon; I saw the smoke plume from where I work.

It's not you. I remember reading in USA Today about A MONTH AGO that it was already the most destructive tornado season on record in quite some time, if not ever.

elite · #10 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 06:18 AM

And where was god during all of this? At the bank cashing a check?

icehockeyaf96 · #11 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulpatch

I think it all depends on the pack you get into. My pack was almost military in fashion. We knew where to be and when. We had plently of supervision and knew where the line was so we did not cross it. It was great. Since we knew all of this we got to go on a ton of trips all over te place. We hiked the app trail for a week and a half.

While in cub scouts we also had a great set of leaders. We had one issue with a leader once. He went on his first trip and decided to bring a flask. He was immediately escorted home by the other leaders once they found out. Just the way it was in my troop.

In boy scouts us older members would go on hikes basically alone at times. We had to have at least one person 18 or older but otherwise past the age of 15 you could be on the hikes. They were great too.

I was hoping that boyscouts would provide the same experience you had with it. After trying 3 packs, we saw no point of continuing. The last troop he was in earned most of their badges from overnight trips. This greatly conflicted with my son's goaltending schedule, so he chose hockey!

Oh, I also remember that on one of the overnights, one of the leaders hit on a married woman who was not at all interested in having any affairs and let him know this. He bothered her at all the meetings as well. That's a really good role model for the boys scouts!